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Post by sobecuse on Apr 26, 2019 10:12:31 GMT -5
If we were paying players then we either paid too little or should demand our money back!
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Post by deano on Apr 29, 2019 14:58:39 GMT -5
For some people that want to know why SU doesn't offer certain kids this is why -
Oh and if you thought the Quinerly's would good folks think again -
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Post by downhere67 on Apr 29, 2019 18:29:13 GMT -5
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Post by JazzNC on Apr 29, 2019 20:30:56 GMT -5
Miller should absolutely be toast. But I want real justice... Kentucky, Duke and UNC.
I definitely get why SU doesn't offer certain players. But I still think we should be able to do better than we do with recruiting bigs and point guards. Not everyone we lost was because of a bag.
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Post by sobecuse on Apr 29, 2019 22:14:45 GMT -5
Miller should absolutely be toast. But I want real justice... Kentucky, Duke and UNC. I definitely get why SU doesn't offer certain players. But I still think we should be able to do better than we do with recruiting bigs and point guards. Not everyone we lost was because of a bag. Probably All-Zone has something to do with it. Possibly some of the living accommodations as well. Maybe Boeheim too. Seems like JB willingly is seeking out the longer/lanky/taller combos and 2Gs to try those risky conversions to PG. Frank Howard was offered only by us to be a PG. Everybody else a SG...duh! Like I mentioned before, he freaking wanted to make RHJ a PG. What?! Givony just tweeted that possibly the most impressive kid he has seen so far on the Circuit is 2021 PG, Daeshun Ruffin. From Mississippi. Heβs dominating everybody at 5β9 170. Not a fit here, sigh.
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Post by JazzNC on Apr 30, 2019 7:08:06 GMT -5
Miller should absolutely be toast. But I want real justice... Kentucky, Duke and UNC. I definitely get why SU doesn't offer certain players. But I still think we should be able to do better than we do with recruiting bigs and point guards. Not everyone we lost was because of a bag. Probably All-Zone has something to do with it. Possibly some of the living accommodations as well. Maybe Boeheim too. Seems like JB willingly is seeking out the longer/lanky/taller combos and 2Gs to try those risky conversions to PG. Frank Howard was offered only by us to be a PG. Everybody else a SG...duh! Like I mentioned before, he freaking wanted to make RHJ a PG. What?! Givony just tweeted that possibly the most impressive kid he has seen so far on the Circuit is 2021 PG, Daeshun Ruffin. From Mississippi. Heβs dominating everybody at 5β9 170. Not a fit here, sigh. There's no doubt that SU's recruiting woes are multifaceted. Our recruiting efforts are hampered by the zone exclusivity, corruption in the game, needing to be a clean program because of past infractions, as well as JB's age and cantankerous personality. All of these factors with the exception of the corruption are within SU's control. If we can't recruit because of the ALL zone scheme, then change it. If we can't recruit because of JB's age, then it's time to transition. If we can't recruit because of JB's personality, then it's time to move on. The only factor outside of our control is the corruption and the bags that players get from other schools. One could make a case that the corruption and cheating take place at every school, it's just that we got caught. If that's true, then what is it about SU/JB that created the target on our backs? AND might a new/fresh coach/staff help restore the relationship with the powers that be?
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Post by deano on Apr 30, 2019 10:11:16 GMT -5
What kills me is that Hop has been at UW going on 3rd year and has more top recruits than JB in the last 2-3 years, it's sad.
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Post by deano on Apr 30, 2019 10:11:51 GMT -5
How LSU let Wade back on to coach is amazing and this just shows he's as guilty/dirty as Miller.
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Post by cusefan2016 on Apr 30, 2019 11:04:29 GMT -5
No doubt recruiting has taken a step back. But just to counter on all those points.
1) We have always played all zone. we have recruited to a system for sure which leads to going after some more under the radar guys that fit our mold. But all the mcd AA and top level guys that committed from 2000 on came to play all zone.
2) JB personality. Hes is very possibly cranky and tough on players. (we cant prove this and no one has really ever left SU bad mouthing him). But even so, that has been his personality for years as well. When we won in 03 or the sustained success from 06-12 he wasnt running up and down sidelines and a coach players want to run through a wall for.
3) JB age. Yes he is older and the uncertainty doesnt help, cant deny that. But just if were looking in conference. Roy and K are no spring chickens (prob more health concerns too and they dont have succession plans in place)
My point is not to say the recruiting hasnt taken a step back because it very clearly has. I just think it is a convenient to blame JB. High end recruits like Melo, Donte Green, Scoop, Fab, Dion, Rak, Jerami Grant, Ennis, Bazley, and more that i am missing all committed to play for the same older, crankier, all zone coach we have now.
In my opinion the issue does not lie at the lack of 5 star top 20 kids. It is that we have not been able to identify and develop the 4 year Fairs, Southerlands, Triches, Josephs, and so on that allow you to have sustained success. A foundation leads to wins year in and out, which can then be supplemented with high end 1-2 year guys.
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Post by downhere67 on Apr 30, 2019 11:43:50 GMT -5
How LSU let Wade back on to coach is amazing and this just shows he's as guilty/dirty as Miller. I think it was smart to let him back. If they fire him right away without due process he will sue for his full contract which I believe is 4 more years. However, if the NCAA jumps in the will have just cause and say no cash for you. To me this is all about optics and $$$. Even his top assistant split, the ax is about to drop on him. I want to see how Miller gets out of this. If all these guys are lying then sue them, but he will not because then he has to be deposed. Some say Arizona will never get hit because to is a blue blood, I do not agree. Yes the NCAA is not what it once was like in the 80's when they issued the death penalty and went after Kentucky and Uncle Eddie. However, to me there are 3 schools they will not touch, Duke, UNC and Kentucky (more in football). Everyone else is game. Shit, even Shaq knew enough to get his kid out of there last summer. It is too bad that the kids involved are long gone by the time the NCAA does anything and the kids who did nothing are the ones to pay the price.
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Post by deano on Apr 30, 2019 11:51:07 GMT -5
No doubt recruiting has taken a step back. But just to counter on all those points. 1) We have always played all zone. we have recruited to a system for sure which leads to going after some more under the radar guys that fit our mold. But all the mcd AA and top level guys that committed from 2000 on came to play all zone. 2) JB personality. Hes is very possibly cranky and tough on players. (we cant prove this and no one has really ever left SU bad mouthing him). But even so, that has been his personality for years as well. When we won in 03 or the sustained success from 06-12 he wasnt running up and down sidelines and a coach players want to run through a wall for. 3) JB age. Yes he is older and the uncertainty doesnt help, cant deny that. But just if were looking in conference. Roy and K are no spring chickens (prob more health concerns too and they dont have succession plans in place) My point is not to say the recruiting hasnt taken a step back because it very clearly has. I just think it is a convenient to blame JB. High end recruits like Melo, Donte Green, Scoop, Fab, Dion, Rak, Jerami Grant, Ennis, Bazley, and more that i am missing all committed to play for the same older, crankier, all zone coach we have now. In my opinion the issue does not lie at the lack of 5 star top 20 kids. It is that we have not been able to identify and develop the 4 year Fairs, Southerlands, Triches, Josephs, and so on that allow you to have sustained success. A foundation leads to wins year in and out, which can then be supplemented with high end 1-2 year guys. Great post! It makes you wonder if Buddy wasn't here if ADJW would consider a coaching change soon than later. If we continue to dissolve in the next few years something HAS to be done. Again this feels like when they keep Coach P too long as the football head coach and look how many years the program suffered till we finally got the right hired coach in.
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Post by deano on Apr 30, 2019 11:54:25 GMT -5
How LSU let Wade back on to coach is amazing and this just shows he's as guilty/dirty as Miller. I think it was smart to let him back. If they fire him right away without due process he will sue for his full contract which I believe is 4 more years. However, if the NCAA jumps in the will have just cause and say no cash for you. To me this is all about optics and $$$. Even his top assistant split, the ax is about to drop on him. I want to see how Miller gets out of this. If all these guys are lying then sue them, but he will not because then he has to be deposed. Some say Arizona will never get hit because to is a blue blood, I do not agree. Yes the NCAA is not what it once was like in the 80's when they issued the death penalty and went after Kentucky and Uncle Eddie. However, to me there are 3 schools they will not touch, Duke, UNC and Kentucky (more in football). Everyone else is game. Shit, even Shaq knew enough to get his kid out of there last summer. It is too bad that the kids involved are long gone by the time the NCAA does anything and the kids who did nothing are the ones to pay the price. Yep and PayPalCal is the king of the crap. Left UMass when all the Camby stuff went down and did the same thing at Memphis with D. Rose and the ACT fiasco.
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Post by downhere67 on Apr 30, 2019 12:26:47 GMT -5
I think it was smart to let him back. If they fire him right away without due process he will sue for his full contract which I believe is 4 more years. However, if the NCAA jumps in the will have just cause and say no cash for you. To me this is all about optics and $$$. Even his top assistant split, the ax is about to drop on him. I want to see how Miller gets out of this. If all these guys are lying then sue them, but he will not because then he has to be deposed. Some say Arizona will never get hit because to is a blue blood, I do not agree. Yes the NCAA is not what it once was like in the 80's when they issued the death penalty and went after Kentucky and Uncle Eddie. However, to me there are 3 schools they will not touch, Duke, UNC and Kentucky (more in football). Everyone else is game. Shit, even Shaq knew enough to get his kid out of there last summer. It is too bad that the kids involved are long gone by the time the NCAA does anything and the kids who did nothing are the ones to pay the price. Yep and PayPalCal is the king of the crap. Left UMass when all the Camby stuff went down and did the same thing at Memphis with D. Rose and the ACT fiasco. Check out his main man, World Wide Wes, he was the guy who got Rose into school. I remember when Quade Green was all set to sign with us and then there is a picture of him and a few others at MSG with And like magic he committed a week later.
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Post by JazzNC on Apr 30, 2019 12:27:48 GMT -5
No doubt recruiting has taken a step back. But just to counter on all those points. 1) We have always played all zone. we have recruited to a system for sure which leads to going after some more under the radar guys that fit our mold. But all the mcd AA and top level guys that committed from 2000 on came to play all zone. 2) JB personality. Hes is very possibly cranky and tough on players. (we cant prove this and no one has really ever left SU bad mouthing him). But even so, that has been his personality for years as well. When we won in 03 or the sustained success from 06-12 he wasnt running up and down sidelines and a coach players want to run through a wall for. 3) JB age. Yes he is older and the uncertainty doesnt help, cant deny that. But just if were looking in conference. Roy and K are no spring chickens (prob more health concerns too and they dont have succession plans in place) My point is not to say the recruiting hasnt taken a step back because it very clearly has. I just think it is a convenient to blame JB. High end recruits like Melo, Donte Green, Scoop, Fab, Dion, Rak, Jerami Grant, Ennis, Bazley, and more that i am missing all committed to play for the same older, crankier, all zone coach we have now. In my opinion the issue does not lie at the lack of 5 star top 20 kids. It is that we have not been able to identify and develop the 4 year Fairs, Southerlands, Triches, Josephs, and so on that allow you to have sustained success. A foundation leads to wins year in and out, which can then be supplemented with high end 1-2 year guys. Great post. You absolutely make a lot of great points For whatever reason, it's become uncool to play all zone, and in SU's case it's become a survival strategy because we aren't recruiting the athletes we used to. It's really noticeable too. We fail the optics test badly the last couple of years. But you're right we have successfully recruited players to play zone in the past. The game is evolving quickly, and the zone isn't what it used to be. As for age, you're also right that this is not an issue with Coach K and Roy. But I think we both know that it would be if they weren't cheating. As for unfairly blaming JB... that's also probably true. This mess is certainly not all his fault. He's been caught in the perfect storm of age, sanctions, and corruption, which make it nearly impossible for him to duplicate his previous success. That's where I think people misunderstand me. I don't want JB gone. I don't blame JB. I would love nothing more than for him to go out on top. But the fact of the matter is, that for right or for wrong, the state of the program cannot improve until JB moves on. Is it fair? No. Life isn't fair. Trust me, I've been dealt a shit load of things in my life that haven't been fair. Sometimes you just have to realize it, and let go. JB would be doing SU a favor if he retired, so we could move on, and rebuild the brand. JB will always be a legend. The NCAA can strip wins but at the end of the day JB shouldn't need to prove anything to anyone. He's a winner. Slam dunk.
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Post by deano on Apr 30, 2019 12:47:05 GMT -5
Yep and PayPalCal is the king of the crap. Left UMass when all the Camby stuff went down and did the same thing at Memphis with D. Rose and the ACT fiasco. Check out his main man, World Wide Wes, he was the guy who got Rose into school. I remember when Quade Green was all set to sign with us and then there is a picture of him and a few others at MSG with And like magic he committed a week later. Quade got played that was for sure but he got his bag.
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