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Post by JazzNC on Mar 30, 2021 17:41:15 GMT -5
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Post by Lucas Lee on Mar 30, 2021 17:47:12 GMT -5
Eh, I don't really hate Joe.
I feel like JB makes me dislike people that I would otherwise really root for.
As the 4th guard, I would love this kid.
Marek not as a Center, I would love.
Buddy off the bench as the deep threat is the type of player I had been clamoring for for years. Instead, he's a 37MPG starter.
Edwards, Ajak.....I could root for all these guys as second options because they're likable and could help THE BENCH.
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Post by JazzNC on Mar 30, 2021 17:48:53 GMT -5
I don’t dislike Joe either. But... Joe shouldn’t start, and he should’ve played behind Kadary. He also looked woefully out of shape all season. Bordering on pudgy.
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Post by Lucas Lee on Mar 30, 2021 18:05:19 GMT -5
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Post by JazzNC on Mar 30, 2021 18:09:24 GMT -5
Pretty good clip to encapsulate the difference between the two players.
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Post by sobecuse on Mar 30, 2021 18:19:17 GMT -5
Haha. Yeah that’s a good one. That stuff happens with him occasionally. Not quite to that extent, ha. Yeah as an annoying sparkplug/gunner off the bench and occasional spot PG duty he is fine. The WVU game was an outlier/aberration. Him getting lucky a bit launching those bombs and a couple with Buddy too. It’s just playing with fire/Russian roulette the way we play. Hope the other team starts off a bit inept handling the Zone. We don’t really play downhill (Kadary was the only attacking guard with some speed) and no post presence to dump it down in the post to for an easy bucket to loosen up a D taking pressure off the perimeter players. Oregon St scored nearly 20 more points more than we did against UH. They were getting some buckets inside on post ups and interior passing. Rutgers almost beat them. We are likely facing more of this difficult to sustain style of play and with all the newcomers next season and how JB likes to lament/complain how long it takes to learn the Zone; we’re looking at a potentially disastrous season.
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Post by rustyorange on Mar 30, 2021 18:27:37 GMT -5
I’d much rather we kept Kadary. Joe better bust his ass off this offseason. He was fat and slow this year.
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Post by bowery14 on Apr 5, 2021 18:15:11 GMT -5
I'm not sure he was that fat. I think he's just really slow generally.
He did look a tad plump, but i doubt his qiuckness changes much either way
He has a role on this team but it will likely be one that is far too pronounced.
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Post by Lucas Lee on Apr 9, 2021 6:39:13 GMT -5
Haha. Yeah that’s a good one. That stuff happens with him occasionally. Not quite to that extent, ha. Yeah as an annoying sparkplug/gunner off the bench and occasional spot PG duty he is fine. The WVU game was an outlier/aberration. Him getting lucky a bit launching those bombs and a couple with Buddy too. It’s just playing with fire/Russian roulette the way we play. Hope the other team starts off a bit inept handling the Zone. We don’t really play downhill (Kadary was the only attacking guard with some speed) and no post presence to dump it down in the post to for an easy bucket to loosen up a D taking pressure off the perimeter players. Oregon St scored nearly 20 more points more than we did against UH. They were getting some buckets inside on post ups and interior passing. Rutgers almost beat them. We are likely facing more of this difficult to sustain style of play and with all the newcomers next season and how JB likes to lament/complain how long it takes to learn the Zone; we’re looking at a potentially disastrous season. Admittedly he did look solid against WVU, which is a pressure defense team, but not quite as good at it as some years. I think calling it 'russian roulette' is spot on. The guards just don't normally take advantage if they are overplayed. They also have the strangest tendency in the world, which JB seems fine with, where if someone is stuck after picking up their dribble they just stand in place FAR too often. You'll see AG, Marek, or Q pick up the dribble behind the three point line, and Buddy will just stand on the other side of the court and do nothing, and Joe will do the same. I've never seen guards that offer so little help in those scenarios. It's bizarre.
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Post by sobecuse on Apr 9, 2021 12:12:12 GMT -5
Haha. Yeah that’s a good one. That stuff happens with him occasionally. Not quite to that extent, ha. Yeah as an annoying sparkplug/gunner off the bench and occasional spot PG duty he is fine. The WVU game was an outlier/aberration. Him getting lucky a bit launching those bombs and a couple with Buddy too. It’s just playing with fire/Russian roulette the way we play. Hope the other team starts off a bit inept handling the Zone. We don’t really play downhill (Kadary was the only attacking guard with some speed) and no post presence to dump it down in the post to for an easy bucket to loosen up a D taking pressure off the perimeter players. Oregon St scored nearly 20 more points more than we did against UH. They were getting some buckets inside on post ups and interior passing. Rutgers almost beat them. We are likely facing more of this difficult to sustain style of play and with all the newcomers next season and how JB likes to lament/complain how long it takes to learn the Zone; we’re looking at a potentially disastrous season. Admittedly he did look solid against WVU, which is a pressure defense team, but not quite as good at it as some years. I think calling it 'russian roulette' is spot on. The guards just don't normally take advantage if they are overplayed. They also have the strangest tendency in the world, which JB seems fine with, where if someone is stuck after picking up their dribble they just stand in place FAR too often. You'll see AG, Marek, or Q pick up the dribble behind the three point line, and Buddy will just stand on the other side of the court and do nothing, and Joe will do the same. I've never seen guards that offer so little help in those scenarios. It's bizarre. Yeah this has happened for years too. Happened with Carey before he was pulled in terms of him picking up the dribble and discombulating the whole offense. It was REALLY bad with Frank Howard. He would realize that he needed a screen too late then summon poor Chukwu to have to circle back to him to bail him out. He either picked up his dribble too soon or good teams would ignore Chukwu’s screen and blitz Howard. We’re a little better at this now since we have some shooters who can pick ‘n pop. Joe generally handles this stuff a lot better than Kaleb/Frank/Jaylen. Is it great? No but the bar has been set tremendously low. Kadary could turn the corner on a lot of guys and/or even could split double teams that tried to blitz him. No more Kadary. I think JB is trying to spread people out and play like Nova or Baylor but he needs more guards and ballhandlers! That would mean scrapping the whole Zone and of course that won’t happen. Running these dribble weaves with Marek/AG/Quincy often ends up like what you say. They have to pick up their dribbles and the offense discombulates. These issues all get masked and swept under the rug with the decent KenPom numbers (somewhat fool’s gold IMO) and because we have guys who take and make a lot of contested deep 3s and bailouts. You can play mediocre teams like this but we saw VS Duke, GT, Houston, it was no bueno. SDSU and WVU got off to such a bad start VS the Zone and our shooters were unconscious with their launches that it was a wrap early and we just needed to hold on. This is all just not sustainable. We’re going to need a big to command a double or hope Symir has some real speed or else our CEILING will be another middle of the pack ACC finish. Right where we should be!
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Post by Lucas Lee on May 2, 2021 17:07:18 GMT -5
Yeah this has happened for years too. Happened with Carey before he was pulled in terms of him picking up the dribble and discombulating the whole offense. It was REALLY bad with Frank Howard. He would realize that he needed a screen too late then summon poor Chukwu to have to circle back to him to bail him out. He either picked up his dribble too soon or good teams would ignore Chukwu’s screen and blitz Howard. We’re a little better at this now since we have some shooters who can pick ‘n pop. Joe generally handles this stuff a lot better than Kaleb/Frank/Jaylen. Is it great? No but the bar has been set tremendously low. Kadary could turn the corner on a lot of guys and/or even could split double teams that tried to blitz him. No more Kadary. I think JB is trying to spread people out and play like Nova or Baylor but he needs more guards and ballhandlers! That would mean scrapping the whole Zone and of course that won’t happen. Running these dribble weaves with Marek/AG/Quincy often ends up like what you say. They have to pick up their dribbles and the offense discombulates. These issues all get masked and swept under the rug with the decent KenPom numbers (somewhat fool’s gold IMO) and because we have guys who take and make a lot of contested deep 3s and bailouts. You can play mediocre teams like this but we saw VS Duke, GT, Houston, it was no bueno. SDSU and WVU got off to such a bad start VS the Zone and our shooters were unconscious with their launches that it was a wrap early and we just needed to hold on. This is all just not sustainable. We’re going to need a big to command a double or hope Symir has some real speed or else our CEILING will be another middle of the pack ACC finish. Right where we should be! I messed up this quote trying to remove mine, but whatever. I think JB isn't trying much of anything if we're being honest. I think he wants coachable players, that he can surround Buddy with, that will defer to him and get him into the record books. You can't be Nova or Baylor with a lot of high-level athletes. We don't have the ballhandlers or the athletes to even think that's what we're going for. I think JB is pretty much retired and thinks he can win with these guys, that I do believe, but I think he's checked on coaching and just wants a "team" that he can handle without much fuss. I'm not sure what Joe brings to the table other than depth, and an ability to catch fire, which is fine, but unless Symir is LIGHTS OUT great and fast from the jump, this team is a mess for this level. We can win games, no doubt, but it's still a mess.
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Post by sobecuse on May 3, 2021 3:04:52 GMT -5
I think JB is trying to spread people out and play like Nova or Baylor but he needs more guards and ballhandlers! That would mean scrapping the whole Zone and of course that won’t happen. Running these dribble weaves with Marek/AG/Quincy often ends up like what you say. They have to pick up their dribbles and the offense discombulates. These issues all get masked and swept under the rug with the decent KenPom numbers (somewhat fool’s gold IMO) and because we have guys who take and make a lot of contested deep 3s and bailouts. You can play mediocre teams like this but we saw VS Duke, GT, Houston, it was no bueno. SDSU and WVU got off to such a bad start VS the Zone and our shooters were unconscious with their launches that it was a wrap early and we just needed to hold on. This is all just not sustainable. We’re going to need a big to command a double or hope Symir has some real speed or else our CEILING will be another middle of the pack ACC finish. Right where we should be! I messed up this quote trying to remove mine, but whatever. I think JB isn't trying much of anything if we're being honest. I think he wants coachable players, that he can surround Buddy with, that will defer to him and get him into the record books. You can't be Nova or Baylor with a lot of high-level athletes. We don't have the ballhandlers or the athletes to even think that's what we're going for. I think JB is pretty much retired and thinks he can win with these guys, that I do believe, but I think he's checked on coaching and just wants a "team" that he can handle without much fuss. I'm not sure what Joe brings to the table other than depth, and an ability to catch fire, which is fine, but unless Symir is LIGHTS OUT great and fast from the jump, this team is a mess for this level. We can win games, no doubt, but it's still a mess. Oh I agree. Just can’t quite tell if JB is delusional in trying to play like and believing he can play like Alabama/Baylor/Nova or if he’s sort of mailed it in like you say and just trying to coach a team without a lot of “fuss.” It’s sad on both fronts. That you are okay with putting out a team that maybe makes the Tournament and wins a game or two. Limited ceiling, regardless. Or, that you may actually think you have the horses to be good. I would think (hope) it is the former. JB watches all of this basketball. What does he think when he sees SO many teams with guards who can handle and get into the lane? With some speed. A big who can make a simple post move and/or knock someone around? Does he know we don’t have that? Does he care? But, yeah, we gotta hope Symir comes in MUCH better than advertised . Same with Benny and Swider. If Buddy returns as the same player and if JB is going to run the offense through him like he did with CJ Fair, then I think we could really struggle. He’s not the kind of player who should be option 1, IMO. It’s really not fair to Buddy either. We’re going to need some double-digit other scorers. Hopefully he comes back with improved agility/athleticism. He supposedly is going to train in Cali with someone for that. Most likely, JB is going to try to design the offense around him though. I just hope it works. CJ Fair was a nice college player...better than Buddy. But even he was a guy who really wasn’t good and athletic enough to he the guy. That team bottomed out and lost second round of the Tourney. I think we will really struggle in the non-conference and it will cost us.
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Post by cusefan2016 on May 3, 2021 8:38:07 GMT -5
It would not shock me if he wanted to coach a team without much fuss, people who are okay with it being a Boeheim & Boeheim show for sure. And maybe that is the case for next year. But between the Lands commitment and other class of '22 tea leaves we certainly are going after some high level talent going forward.
It will be interesting to see how it shakes out.
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