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Post by cusefan2016 on Dec 13, 2021 10:10:43 GMT -5
Going to stop you all here. It is going to be within the "family" and "program". No clue when he hangs it up. But I would just about guarantee our next HC will be Hop, Red, or G Mac.
In regards to bringing in talent and playing above the rim etc, I don't think JB does not realize that, and the kids we are bringing in are certainly more in the mold of our classic big long athlete. He has gone away from that because of what I referenced in another post, the team is built around Buddy and his game.
I do agree a fresh face would be exciting. Oats has it rolling at Bama and despite no history it is tough to compete with that $$. Jay Wright has made Nova more of a name and destination than we currently are. I do think it is a generally a tough sell. And despite everyones anger toward him, the only reason we view our job as a "destination" is because of JB and what he built. I think an Eric Musselman at Arkansas would be a realistic target. But ultimately it seems like it is for sure staying within the family.
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Post by orangedw on Dec 13, 2021 11:03:09 GMT -5
Going to stop you all here. It is going to be within the "family" and "program". No clue when he hangs it up. But I would just about guarantee our next HC will be Hop, Red, or G Mac. In regards to bringing in talent and playing above the rim etc, I don't think JB does not realize that, and the kids we are bringing in are certainly more in the mold of our classic big long athlete. He has gone away from that because of what I referenced in another post, the team is built around Buddy and his game. I do agree a fresh face would be exciting. Oats has it rolling at Bama and despite no history it is tough to compete with that $$. Jay Wright has made Nova more of a name and destination than we currently are. I do think it is a generally a tough sell. And despite everyones anger toward him, the only reason we view our job as a "destination" is because of JB and what he built. I think an Eric Musselman at Arkansas would be a realistic target. But ultimately it seems like it is for sure staying within the family. Nova has Jay Wright and Philly. If Jay Wright leaves? Not sure it’s destination. Philly recruiting base is a big plus but what else do they have besides solid history? We’re still the place you go to, to play in front of the most people. We’re in the best and biggest name league, and have a bunch of large cities within reasonable distance. I don’t think the program is a tough sell at all, once the job is open.
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Post by two3zone on Dec 13, 2021 11:50:33 GMT -5
Going to stop you all here. It is going to be within the "family" and "program". No clue when he hangs it up. But I would just about guarantee our next HC will be Hop, Red, or G Mac. In regards to bringing in talent and playing above the rim etc, I don't think JB does not realize that, and the kids we are bringing in are certainly more in the mold of our classic big long athlete. He has gone away from that because of what I referenced in another post, the team is built around Buddy and his game. I do agree a fresh face would be exciting. Oats has it rolling at Bama and despite no history it is tough to compete with that $$. Jay Wright has made Nova more of a name and destination than we currently are. I do think it is a generally a tough sell. And despite everyones anger toward him, the only reason we view our job as a "destination" is because of JB and what he built. I think an Eric Musselman at Arkansas would be a realistic target. But ultimately it seems like it is for sure staying within the family. Nova has Jay Wright and Philly. If Jay Wright leaves? Not sure it’s destination. Philly recruiting base is a big plus but what else do they have besides solid history? We’re still the place you go to, to play in front of the most people. We’re in the best and biggest name league, and have a bunch of large cities within reasonable distance. I don’t think the program is a tough sell at all, once the job is open. If you removed JB and Jay Wright at the same time the only true advantage we have is conference. Some kids love playing in the dome or are in awe of it the first time, but even with a hall of fame coach, top 100 kids don’t seem to give a shit. High school football kids used to care about it at a time too. We’re not recruiting at the same level as UConn at this point, yes we do have positives about our program but they will not sell the program alone, we need a great coach. We continue down this path and hire within, do you think a place with an attendance of 12k that holds 34k is a plus? At this point I think it gets worse before it gets better, I hope that changes.
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Post by sobecuse on Dec 13, 2021 15:42:35 GMT -5
Going to stop you all here. It is going to be within the "family" and "program". No clue when he hangs it up. But I would just about guarantee our next HC will be Hop, Red, or G Mac. In regards to bringing in talent and playing above the rim etc, I don't think JB does not realize that, and the kids we are bringing in are certainly more in the mold of our classic big long athlete. He has gone away from that because of what I referenced in another post, the team is built around Buddy and his game. I do agree a fresh face would be exciting. Oats has it rolling at Bama and despite no history it is tough to compete with that $$. Jay Wright has made Nova more of a name and destination than we currently are. I do think it is a generally a tough sell. And despite everyones anger toward him, the only reason we view our job as a "destination" is because of JB and what he built. I think an Eric Musselman at Arkansas would be a realistic target. But ultimately it seems like it is for sure staying within the family. Look, we know JB built the program pretty much and is Syracuse basketball. A lifer. We also can realize and accept that the longer he stays on the more harm he is doing to the brand. I also think he is doing harm to the program and his legacy the more he yaps at pressers when he throws players under the bus and such. I don’t see much upside with this roster. Next year could really be a debacle if he doesn’t pound the portal hard. The incoming class of recruits are a few years away from being contributors, IMO. I’m just going to hope Wildhack isn’t stupid enough to pull a stunt such as an “in the family” promotion. Red and GMac have never been offered HC gigs nor have they ever interviewed for one to my knowledge. It would be an incredibly short-sighted approach. As I mentioned before, Scheyer has been publicly endorsed by NBA names holding weight and they recruit at an elite level. The brand is strong. A promotion from within works when the successor is left with talent and a stacked roster. That’s not the case here. I just can’t see Wildhack doing this. It’s time to purge and gut it. This is a top 5 revenue generating hoops program. A rookie coach learning on the job would be a foolish hire.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2021 15:57:33 GMT -5
Perfectly stated sobecuse. Couldn't have said it better.
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Post by orangedw on Dec 13, 2021 16:48:16 GMT -5
Nova has Jay Wright and Philly. If Jay Wright leaves? Not sure it’s destination. Philly recruiting base is a big plus but what else do they have besides solid history? We’re still the place you go to, to play in front of the most people. We’re in the best and biggest name league, and have a bunch of large cities within reasonable distance. I don’t think the program is a tough sell at all, once the job is open. If you removed JB and Jay Wright at the same time the only true advantage we have is conference. Some kids love playing in the dome or are in awe of it the first time, but even with a hall of fame coach, top 100 kids don’t seem to give a shit. High school football kids used to care about it at a time too. We’re not recruiting at the same level as UConn at this point, yes we do have positives about our program but they will not sell the program alone, we need a great coach. We continue down this path and hire within, do you think a place with an attendance of 12k that holds 34k is a plus? At this point I think it gets worse before it gets better, I hope that changes. Disagree. Every recruit and player we get talks about the Dome and the way the team is like the areas pro team with all the fans who are into the team. A lot of these schools don’t really care about basketball like that. Facilities are still an advantage for us over a lot of schools from what I gather - both the Dome and the Melo Center.
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Post by sobecuse on Dec 13, 2021 17:17:40 GMT -5
If you removed JB and Jay Wright at the same time the only true advantage we have is conference. Some kids love playing in the dome or are in awe of it the first time, but even with a hall of fame coach, top 100 kids don’t seem to give a shit. High school football kids used to care about it at a time too. We’re not recruiting at the same level as UConn at this point, yes we do have positives about our program but they will not sell the program alone, we need a great coach. We continue down this path and hire within, do you think a place with an attendance of 12k that holds 34k is a plus? At this point I think it gets worse before it gets better, I hope that changes. Disagree. Every recruit and player we get talks about the Dome and the way the team is like the areas pro team with all the fans who are into the team. A lot of these schools don’t really care about basketball like that. Facilities are still an advantage for us over a lot of schools from what I gather - both the Dome and the Melo Center. Sure they all say that but we are getting Plan C/D/Es to actually play at SU now.
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Post by two3zone on Dec 13, 2021 18:04:21 GMT -5
If you removed JB and Jay Wright at the same time the only true advantage we have is conference. Some kids love playing in the dome or are in awe of it the first time, but even with a hall of fame coach, top 100 kids don’t seem to give a shit. High school football kids used to care about it at a time too. We’re not recruiting at the same level as UConn at this point, yes we do have positives about our program but they will not sell the program alone, we need a great coach. We continue down this path and hire within, do you think a place with an attendance of 12k that holds 34k is a plus? At this point I think it gets worse before it gets better, I hope that changes. Disagree. Every recruit and player we get talks about the Dome and the way the team is like the areas pro team with all the fans who are into the team. A lot of these schools don’t really care about basketball like that. Facilities are still an advantage for us over a lot of schools from what I gather - both the Dome and the Melo Center. That’s the problem, the ones we get talk about the dome and the things you’re talking about, what about the guys we want? Is there on player on the roster outside of Benny who wasn’t recruited as a project or a plan B, C, or D?
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Post by two3zone on Dec 13, 2021 18:08:22 GMT -5
Disagree. Every recruit and player we get talks about the Dome and the way the team is like the areas pro team with all the fans who are into the team. A lot of these schools don’t really care about basketball like that. Facilities are still an advantage for us over a lot of schools from what I gather - both the Dome and the Melo Center. Sure they all say that but we are getting Plan C/D/Es to actually play at SU now. I replied the same thing without reading yours. To add on, I, sure every football recruit we get loves the dome too. Unfortunately for us talent wants to get to the next level and will go anywhere to where they think they have the biggest advantage to do that.
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Post by orangedw on Dec 13, 2021 21:31:33 GMT -5
Disagree. Every recruit and player we get talks about the Dome and the way the team is like the areas pro team with all the fans who are into the team. A lot of these schools don’t really care about basketball like that. Facilities are still an advantage for us over a lot of schools from what I gather - both the Dome and the Melo Center. Sure they all say that but we are getting Plan C/D/Es to actually play at SU now. I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that the facilities aren’t the problem with our recruiting. It’s coach.
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Post by two3zone on Dec 13, 2021 21:32:30 GMT -5
Sure they all say that but we are getting Plan C/D/Es to actually play at SU now. I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that the facilities aren’t the problem with our recruiting. It’s coach. I don’t think they’re a problem, but I think they’re extremely overrated.
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Post by orangedw on Dec 13, 2021 21:33:09 GMT -5
Sure they all say that but we are getting Plan C/D/Es to actually play at SU now. I replied the same thing without reading yours. To add on, I, sure every football recruit we get loves the dome too. Unfortunately for us talent wants to get to the next level and will go anywhere to where they think they have the biggest advantage to do that. Dome for football is small. For b-ball it’s a marvel.
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Post by sobecuse on Dec 13, 2021 22:13:24 GMT -5
I replied the same thing without reading yours. To add on, I, sure every football recruit we get loves the dome too. Unfortunately for us talent wants to get to the next level and will go anywhere to where they think they have the biggest advantage to do that. Dome for football is small. For b-ball it’s a marvel. I think 15-18K still in the cavernous Dome can be a morgue. At least the aesthetics have been improved. Melo Center is still very good even though many programs have caught up.
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Post by cusefan2016 on Dec 14, 2021 9:46:38 GMT -5
Going to stop you all here. It is going to be within the "family" and "program". No clue when he hangs it up. But I would just about guarantee our next HC will be Hop, Red, or G Mac. In regards to bringing in talent and playing above the rim etc, I don't think JB does not realize that, and the kids we are bringing in are certainly more in the mold of our classic big long athlete. He has gone away from that because of what I referenced in another post, the team is built around Buddy and his game. I do agree a fresh face would be exciting. Oats has it rolling at Bama and despite no history it is tough to compete with that $$. Jay Wright has made Nova more of a name and destination than we currently are. I do think it is a generally a tough sell. And despite everyones anger toward him, the only reason we view our job as a "destination" is because of JB and what he built. I think an Eric Musselman at Arkansas would be a realistic target. But ultimately it seems like it is for sure staying within the family. Look, we know JB built the program pretty much and is Syracuse basketball. A lifer. We also can realize and accept that the longer he stays on the more harm he is doing to the brand. I also think he is doing harm to the program and his legacy the more he yaps at pressers when he throws players under the bus and such. I don’t see much upside with this roster. Next year could really be a debacle if he doesn’t pound the portal hard. The incoming class of recruits are a few years away from being contributors, IMO. I’m just going to hope Wildhack isn’t stupid enough to pull a stunt such as an “in the family” promotion. Red and GMac have never been offered HC gigs nor have they ever interviewed for one to my knowledge. It would be an incredibly short-sighted approach. As I mentioned before, Scheyer has been publicly endorsed by NBA names holding weight and they recruit at an elite level. The brand is strong. A promotion from within works when the successor is left with talent and a stacked roster. That’s not the case here. I just can’t see Wildhack doing this. It’s time to purge and gut it. This is a top 5 revenue generating hoops program. A rookie coach learning on the job would be a foolish hire. I do not disagree. I am just saying it is not going to happen. There is no world where it is not a short and tight process that they basically let JB choose. Now the only thing that does hold it up is if it is between Red/G Mac I cant imagine a world where Red works under G Mac so they might let Red depart first. In regards to Scheyer holding NBA weight. Yes he has shown he can recruit. But it also works both ways because were also touting Dukes brand that really anyone can go in there recruit. If anything G Mac has more experience as an on bench coach. I guess my general point is that you cant say G Mac is a disaster hire but think Scheyer is a home run IMO. Lastly, again someone like Red or G Mac it is a total unknown if it works out. Either way though I do think it brings energy and youthfulness that we have missed. Someone who will be on the road recruiting. A more modern approach to dealing with the current 18-20 year old.
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Post by sobecuse on Dec 14, 2021 15:16:29 GMT -5
Look, we know JB built the program pretty much and is Syracuse basketball. A lifer. We also can realize and accept that the longer he stays on the more harm he is doing to the brand. I also think he is doing harm to the program and his legacy the more he yaps at pressers when he throws players under the bus and such. I don’t see much upside with this roster. Next year could really be a debacle if he doesn’t pound the portal hard. The incoming class of recruits are a few years away from being contributors, IMO. I’m just going to hope Wildhack isn’t stupid enough to pull a stunt such as an “in the family” promotion. Red and GMac have never been offered HC gigs nor have they ever interviewed for one to my knowledge. It would be an incredibly short-sighted approach. As I mentioned before, Scheyer has been publicly endorsed by NBA names holding weight and they recruit at an elite level. The brand is strong. A promotion from within works when the successor is left with talent and a stacked roster. That’s not the case here. I just can’t see Wildhack doing this. It’s time to purge and gut it. This is a top 5 revenue generating hoops program. A rookie coach learning on the job would be a foolish hire. I do not disagree. I am just saying it is not going to happen. There is no world where it is not a short and tight process that they basically let JB choose. Now the only thing that does hold it up is if it is between Red/G Mac I cant imagine a world where Red works under G Mac so they might let Red depart first. In regards to Scheyer holding NBA weight. Yes he has shown he can recruit. But it also works both ways because were also touting Dukes brand that really anyone can go in there recruit. If anything G Mac has more experience as an on bench coach. I guess my general point is that you cant say G Mac is a disaster hire but think Scheyer is a home run IMO. Lastly, again someone like Red or G Mac it is a total unknown if it works out. Either way though I do think it brings energy and youthfulness that we have missed. Someone who will be on the road recruiting. A more modern approach to dealing with the current 18-20 year old. None of us know to a certainty so saying or pontificating *what* will happen is pointless. I’m just going to remain optimistic that Wildhack and BoT make the BEST possible hire and do their due diligence. This is still a Top 10 job, IMO. A learning on the job scenario is foolish. I’ve seen what has happened first hand with my other school (USC) when trying all these in the family hires…not good. Especially the last straw in Helton. Swinging for the fences with Lincoln Riley will rejuvenate the program and fanbase. A similar situation needs to happen and, again, the status quo isn’t going to cut it. I agree we don’t know how they would truly fare nor how Scheyer will do. But, I doubt we would have many people who hold some weight and/or cache thrilled about GMac or Red. I’ve heard Sean McDonough on Sirius voice that he’s hopeful and outside hire is executed and I’ve heard Etan Thomas on one his pods say the same thing. Voices as I mentioned like Tatum or Zion mean something. Boozer too in studios. Who would we have out there lol? The optics are important too with a maneuver like this. The program and brand needs a major shot in the arm. No kid knows SU the way us diehards do who were around for championship runs. They see a weird product year after year, weird system, goofy players, poor fundamentals/concepts, usually embarrassed on national TV, and with a grandpa as a coach. Oh and we’re always talked about in relationship to the Bubble. No doubt though they could relate better with 18-20s and have more energy. Anybody would by default.
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