|
Post by day2 on Feb 9, 2024 0:06:29 GMT -5
Battle, Brissett, and Howard were among the league leaders in MPG. I think they were all in the top five. Then Hughes. JB subbed less and less towards the end. I think he would have done the same no matter who was starting. It’s not like Girard was the first non-PG to ever run the point at SU. This goes all the way back to Stevie Thompson, right? Triche, Gbinije, Howard, Carey, Mintz…It wasn’t Daddyball. JB insisted on coaching his sons and that was nepotism. Indisputable. However, he coached them exactly like he coached his other players. The starters play too many minutes. SGs play PG and PFs play C. Two guys come off the bench, maybe three. It was a pattern, not special treatment. If QG left because he was worried about ceding time to Junior, then he was being soft. We’re talking about a guy who wanted to shoot threes instead of mixing it up down low. You know…Soft. Richmond committed to SU sight unseen. The coaches insisted he visit first. So he was a bit of an eccentric before he set foot on campus. And when he did, it was in the middle of a pandemic. At a school with some of the harshest, most depressing weather in the country. Were his minutes - or lack thereof - a factor in him leaving? Of course. Can we stop pretending there weren’t other factors, though? It’s not like he transferred to Iowa. He went home. It’s like all of the conspiracy theories over Kawhi Leonard leaving the Raptors for the Clippers. Some guys just want to play close to home. Last point: Junior started because Williams was an overrated headcase. I would have started Junior, too. I wouldn’t have put him at center in the closing seconds against Wake, though. That was the worst thing JB did while coaching his sons. Buddy had to earn his spot, though. He rode the pine for half of his freshman year. Girard had to earn his PT as well. If it was as egregious as you guys want to make it out to be, then both of them would have started immediately. I think for me it boils down to opportunity. I think if the other players played defense like Buddy they never would gotten to 38 minutes - maybe, at the very best, by their senior year. Certainly not if in addition to the defense they were totally one-dimensional for most of their career. I think that was notably different treatment. No one other than Edwards played defense when Buddy was a senior. We’ve had bad defenders in the past. Did anyone else call him Eric Evenorf because his game had no D? He played 34 MPG his last two years.
|
|
|
Post by day2 on Feb 9, 2024 0:18:22 GMT -5
Battle, Brissett, and Howard were among the league leaders in MPG. I think they were all in the top five. Then Hughes. JB subbed less and less towards the end. I think he would have done the same no matter who was starting. It’s not like Girard was the first non-PG to ever run the point at SU. This goes all the way back to Stevie Thompson, right? Triche, Gbinije, Howard, Carey, Mintz…It wasn’t Daddyball. JB insisted on coaching his sons and that was nepotism. Indisputable. However, he coached them exactly like he coached his other players. The starters play too many minutes. SGs play PG and PFs play C. Two guys come off the bench, maybe three. It was a pattern, not special treatment. If QG left because he was worried about ceding time to Junior, then he was being soft. We’re talking about a guy who wanted to shoot threes instead of mixing it up down low. You know…Soft. Richmond committed to SU sight unseen. The coaches insisted he visit first. So he was a bit of an eccentric before he set foot on campus. And when he did, it was in the middle of a pandemic. At a school with some of the harshest, most depressing weather in the country. Were his minutes - or lack thereof - a factor in him leaving? Of course. Can we stop pretending there weren’t other factors, though? It’s not like he transferred to Iowa. He went home. It’s like all of the conspiracy theories over Kawhi Leonard leaving the Raptors for the Clippers. Some guys just want to play close to home. Last point: Junior started because Williams was an overrated headcase. I would have started Junior, too. I wouldn’t have put him at center in the closing seconds against Wake, though. That was the worst thing JB did while coaching his sons. Buddy had to earn his spot, though. He rode the pine for half of his freshman year. Girard had to earn his PT as well. If it was as egregious as you guys want to make it out to be, then both of them would have started immediately. I think those Battle teams just had zero depth though, if I recall. That was sanctions inpacted? We were playing a walkon in a NCAA tourney game. Battle was good enough to deserve the heavy minutes IMO. Stevie Thompson didn’t last at PG - ended up replacing him with Edwards - who was the recruiting fallback to missing on Kenny Anderson. Also Earl Duncan transferred which was dumb. That would’ve been his squad. Gbinije actually adapted incredibly well to the position. Hell of a player. Talking a 6’7 kid who could handle, pass, shoot, and defend by the time he was done here. Triche was also a passable PG, especially when compared with a senior like Rautins. After he went to the 2, but was a nice secondary option to Scoop and later MCW. Carey couldn’t dribble, shoot, or pass. Just an athlete. Complete flop as an PG which is why he barely played there - plug was pulled quickly and deservedly so. Our PG recruiting between Ennis and Kadary was absurdly bad, no question. JB’s constant passive shots at Kadary in press conferences made it feel like he didn’t really want him here. It was weird. Always hesitating with any praise, claiming he was out of shape….cmon. Who does that? The WVU tourney game where we couldn’t get the ball past half court over and over, and then he puts Kadary in and he dribbles through it one time and ends the game….lol. My group text was going nuts….”put Kadary in, what the fuck!!!??” Amazing blind spot. What a time. Pandemic and empty Dome, etc….no doubt. Insanely weird time. But you just don’t often see a freshman starting PG bounce for a lesser program. I’m sorry. Well, you should apologize, because that just isn’t true. And he wasn’t a starter. If Blackwell knew Richmond was leaving, then of course JB knew. And - surprise - he took it personally and acted like he always did when taking things personally. So yeah, he didn’t like Richmond and started working on a narrative for when Richmond left. BFD. He wasn’t the first coach to embellish or outright lie. Girard only played six more minutes per game than Richmond, BTW. And there were games down the stretch where Richmond played more minutes. He was also noticeably sucking wind a lot of the time. Did he get Covid? I don’t think the comments about Richmond’s conditioning were that far-fetched. Criticizing Maliq Brown’s passing was more blatantly false.
|
|
|
Post by orangedw on Feb 9, 2024 0:27:57 GMT -5
I think those Battle teams just had zero depth though, if I recall. That was sanctions inpacted? We were playing a walkon in a NCAA tourney game. Battle was good enough to deserve the heavy minutes IMO. Stevie Thompson didn’t last at PG - ended up replacing him with Edwards - who was the recruiting fallback to missing on Kenny Anderson. Also Earl Duncan transferred which was dumb. That would’ve been his squad. Gbinije actually adapted incredibly well to the position. Hell of a player. Talking a 6’7 kid who could handle, pass, shoot, and defend by the time he was done here. Triche was also a passable PG, especially when compared with a senior like Rautins. After he went to the 2, but was a nice secondary option to Scoop and later MCW. Carey couldn’t dribble, shoot, or pass. Just an athlete. Complete flop as an PG which is why he barely played there - plug was pulled quickly and deservedly so. Our PG recruiting between Ennis and Kadary was absurdly bad, no question. JB’s constant passive shots at Kadary in press conferences made it feel like he didn’t really want him here. It was weird. Always hesitating with any praise, claiming he was out of shape….cmon. Who does that? The WVU tourney game where we couldn’t get the ball past half court over and over, and then he puts Kadary in and he dribbles through it one time and ends the game….lol. My group text was going nuts….”put Kadary in, what the fuck!!!??” Amazing blind spot. What a time. Pandemic and empty Dome, etc….no doubt. Insanely weird time. But you just don’t often see a freshman starting PG bounce for a lesser program. I’m sorry. Well, you should apologize, because that just isn’t true. And he wasn’t a starter. If Blackwell knew Richmond was leaving, then of course JB knew. And - surprise - he took it personally and acted like he always did when taking things personally. So yeah, he didn’t like Richmond and started working on a narrative for when Richmond left. BFD. He wasn’t the first coach to embellish or outright lie. Girard only played six more minutes per game than Richmond, BTW. And there were games down the stretch where Richmond played more minutes. He was also noticeably sucking wind a lot of the time. Did he get Covid? I don’t think the comments about Richmond’s conditioning were that far-fetched. Criticizing Maliq Brown’s passing was more blatantly false. I know he wasn’t a starter. That’s my point…..he should’ve been. Because was a better player(especially for a 100% 2-3 zone team) and a better PG. And I can’t think of many guys who started at PG as a freshmen who went down a level and transferred. That’s what I meant….i feel like he’d still be here if he started as a freshman. Who criticized Maliq’s passing? Im lost.
|
|
|
Post by day2 on Feb 9, 2024 1:02:49 GMT -5
Well, you should apologize, because that just isn’t true. And he wasn’t a starter. If Blackwell knew Richmond was leaving, then of course JB knew. And - surprise - he took it personally and acted like he always did when taking things personally. So yeah, he didn’t like Richmond and started working on a narrative for when Richmond left. BFD. He wasn’t the first coach to embellish or outright lie. Girard only played six more minutes per game than Richmond, BTW. And there were games down the stretch where Richmond played more minutes. He was also noticeably sucking wind a lot of the time. Did he get Covid? I don’t think the comments about Richmond’s conditioning were that far-fetched. Criticizing Maliq Brown’s passing was more blatantly false. I know he wasn’t a starter. That’s my point…..he should’ve been. Because was a better player(especially for a 100% 2-3 zone team) and a better PG. And I can’t think of many guys who started at PG as a freshmen who went down a level and transferred. That’s what I meant….i feel like he’d still be here if he started as a freshman. Who criticized Maliq’s passing? Im lost. JB criticized Maliq’s passing to justify why he wasn’t playing more. I guess it’s a chicken or the egg thing. He wasn’t going to be the starter day one, so he had to earn it. Maybe he was never going to earn it because of JB’s alleged infatuation with Gilard or maybe JB was never going to start a guy with one foot out the door. To reiterate, the difference in minutes between the two wasn’t that much and Richmond played more than Gilard in some games, so the favoritism argument doesn’t hold up. BTW, while not a PG, Taurean Thompson was a starter here and transferred to SH after his freshman year. Because he wanted to be close to home.
|
|
|
Post by orangedw on Feb 9, 2024 1:07:18 GMT -5
I know he wasn’t a starter. That’s my point…..he should’ve been. Because was a better player(especially for a 100% 2-3 zone team) and a better PG. And I can’t think of many guys who started at PG as a freshmen who went down a level and transferred. That’s what I meant….i feel like he’d still be here if he started as a freshman. Who criticized Maliq’s passing? Im lost. JB criticized Maliq’s passing to justify why he wasn’t playing more. I guess it’s a chicken or the egg thing. He wasn’t going to be the starter day one, so he had to earn it. Maybe he was never going to earn it because of JB’s alleged infatuation with Gilard or maybe JB was never going to start a guy with one foot out the door. To reiterate, the difference in minutes between the two wasn’t that much and Richmond played more than Gilard in some games, so the favoritism argument doesn’t hold up. BTW, while not a PG, Taurean Thompson was a starter here and transferred to SH after his freshman year. Because he wanted to be close to home. Lol, i don’t remember that Maliq quote. That’s crazy. good point on Taurean, though I’d like to think their respective track records would suggest Taurean wasn’t playing with a full deck and Kadary is.
|
|
|
Post by day2 on Feb 9, 2024 1:21:11 GMT -5
JB criticized Maliq’s passing to justify why he wasn’t playing more. I guess it’s a chicken or the egg thing. He wasn’t going to be the starter day one, so he had to earn it. Maybe he was never going to earn it because of JB’s alleged infatuation with Gilard or maybe JB was never going to start a guy with one foot out the door. To reiterate, the difference in minutes between the two wasn’t that much and Richmond played more than Gilard in some games, so the favoritism argument doesn’t hold up. BTW, while not a PG, Taurean Thompson was a starter here and transferred to SH after his freshman year. Because he wanted to be close to home. Lol, i don’t remember that Maliq quote. That’s crazy. good point on Taurean, though I’d like to think their respective track records would suggest Taurean wasn’t playing with a full deck and Kadary is. Closer to a full deck, yet still several cards short. Who commits to playing at a school without visiting first?
|
|
|
Post by Ghost on Feb 9, 2024 20:29:49 GMT -5
I think for me it boils down to opportunity. I think if the other players played defense like Buddy they never would gotten to 38 minutes - maybe, at the very best, by their senior year. Certainly not if in addition to the defense they were totally one-dimensional for most of their career. I think that was notably different treatment. No one other than Edwards played defense when Buddy was a senior. We’ve had bad defenders in the past. Did anyone else call him Eric Evenorf because his game had no D? He played 34 MPG his last two years. It's just interesting to me at this point, but I'd disagree on using Devo as a parallel in any Buddy conversation. His skill set on offense was so much more refined as a Frosh than Buddy's was even as a Senior. I'd say it was far more advanced in HS than Buddy's. Without looking it up I'd guess at worst he shot about the same from 3 as Buddy. He could drive, finish with both hands, handle the ball, etc....if JB went all in on Devo for four years, lineup wise, foregoing defense all-around to get there, he'd have been in the NBA for sure. It would have been insane to do that though because it's a team sport. I'm not sure JB ever took another player and said, you do one thing and one thing well, and we're going to allow you to do that for your first 2 or 3 years, log HUGE minutes - and then to get even crazier we're going to build a lineup that suits your one dimensional needs. It was bizarro to do that for a specialist. A shooter. It even took 3 years for him to develop that awkward plodding backdown move. You could easily have done that for better shooters over the years, for example, James Southerland, or Shumpert. But he never would, and they weren't even as one-dimensional as Buddy. Maybe Southerland was close, but he could run the court, cover ground in the zone and protect the rim from the weakside. If JB had seen Mookie Jones come out and decided to customize the lineup, and forego his defense first philosophy for him, I'd say he had a track record with such things....but he just didn't. He went all in on getting his kid to the NBA. Maybe never admitted it to himself, but that's how I sorta see it.
|
|
|
Post by day2 on Feb 9, 2024 21:35:33 GMT -5
No one other than Edwards played defense when Buddy was a senior. We’ve had bad defenders in the past. Did anyone else call him Eric Evenorf because his game had no D? He played 34 MPG his last two years. It's just interesting to me at this point, but I'd disagree on using Devo as a parallel in any Buddy conversation. His skill set on offense was so much more refined as a Frosh than Buddy's was even as a Senior. I'd say it was far more advanced in HS than Buddy's. Without looking it up I'd guess at worst he shot about the same from 3 as Buddy. He could drive, finish with both hands, handle the ball, etc....if JB went all in on Devo for four years, lineup wise, foregoing defense all-around to get there, he'd have been in the NBA for sure. It would have been insane to do that though because it's a team sport. I'm not sure JB ever took another player and said, you do one thing and one thing well, and we're going to allow you to do that for your first 2 or 3 years, log HUGE minutes - and then to get even crazier we're going to build a lineup that suits your one dimensional needs. It was bizarro to do that for a specialist. A shooter. It even took 3 years for him to develop that awkward plodding backdown move. You could easily have done that for better shooters over the years, for example, James Southerland, or Shumpert. But he never would, and they weren't even as one-dimensional as Buddy. Maybe Southerland was close, but he could run the court, cover ground in the zone and protect the rim from the weakside. If JB had seen Mookie Jones come out and decided to customize the lineup, and forego his defense first philosophy for him, I'd say he had a track record with such things....but he just didn't. He went all in on getting his kid to the NBA. Maybe never admitted it to himself, but that's how I sorta see it. Would you sacrifice the title in 2003 for no Daddyball?
|
|
|
Post by Ghost on Feb 9, 2024 21:52:56 GMT -5
It's just interesting to me at this point, but I'd disagree on using Devo as a parallel in any Buddy conversation. His skill set on offense was so much more refined as a Frosh than Buddy's was even as a Senior. I'd say it was far more advanced in HS than Buddy's. Without looking it up I'd guess at worst he shot about the same from 3 as Buddy. He could drive, finish with both hands, handle the ball, etc....if JB went all in on Devo for four years, lineup wise, foregoing defense all-around to get there, he'd have been in the NBA for sure. It would have been insane to do that though because it's a team sport. I'm not sure JB ever took another player and said, you do one thing and one thing well, and we're going to allow you to do that for your first 2 or 3 years, log HUGE minutes - and then to get even crazier we're going to build a lineup that suits your one dimensional needs. It was bizarro to do that for a specialist. A shooter. It even took 3 years for him to develop that awkward plodding backdown move. You could easily have done that for better shooters over the years, for example, James Southerland, or Shumpert. But he never would, and they weren't even as one-dimensional as Buddy. Maybe Southerland was close, but he could run the court, cover ground in the zone and protect the rim from the weakside. If JB had seen Mookie Jones come out and decided to customize the lineup, and forego his defense first philosophy for him, I'd say he had a track record with such things....but he just didn't. He went all in on getting his kid to the NBA. Maybe never admitted it to himself, but that's how I sorta see it. Would you sacrifice the title in 2003 for no Daddyball? I shouldn't have to chooose! I'll always be a huge JB fan - but I think I'm holding it against him until we get good again!!!! lol
|
|
|
Post by orangedw on Feb 14, 2024 16:37:11 GMT -5
Just to keep feeding my agenda…..Joe did well against UNC, but how about JJ Starling against UNC? 23 points on 9-15 shooting!
|
|