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Post by day2 on Feb 25, 2024 0:10:42 GMT -5
I don't know. I think he made decisions with the roster that clearly catered to his kid. I can't think of another instance where putting ONE player in a position to succeed was the priority. There was never another player that was tagged a specialist, only asked to excel at that one thing, and given free rein to play 40 minutes a night as the rest of the game developed. He tossed out the entire JB manual - including, and most notably, an emphasis on defense, to make it so his kid could thrive. It's the epitome of daddyball. The program's focus was on JB and his kid, and their success, it stopped being about Syracuse's success as a program. Now, do I think JB tried his best to achieve success within those parameters, sure. But it all revolved around creating a team that was centered around Buddy.............. If JB was a HS History teacher who had supplemental duties coaching the varsity squad - have at it. After 30 years that dude deserves to coach his kid and maybe get some leeway. But it should never be mistaken that JB was paid handsomely, and his kid's afforded every opportunity in life because of those paychecks.....so did they REALLY deserve to cash in that last one BIG chip? Buddy and Jimmy already had a pretty insane head start in life and hoops without that..................so, not in my mind. Anyway, it's fun actually getting to debate this after all these years!!!! Definitely respect your views on it as well. Kadary Buddy Swider Quincy Jesse girard Braswell Anselem lets roll. 2021-22 squad. Griffin with a kid moves on. Jimmy never comes because he’s not good enough. Kadary starts at PG because he’s the only good PG on the team(Symir can come and be 9th man and 4th guard if he wants), Joe comes off the bench at both guard spots for 8-12 mpg each, and Buddy plays 30 mpg. What’s the problem with that? We probably get a 5-6 seed or so. The problem is Richmond and Guerrier didn’t want to stick around. They are accountable for themselves. If you want to blame JB for their departures, I personally won’t accept more than 50%. I have to blame the players for at least half of it. Newton, too. Man up and win your spot. Act like you want to be on the team. Guerrier didn’t want to play the way JB wanted him to play. That’s on him. Richmond gave JB no reason to trust him. That’s a big deal when you’re talking about a PG. (Braswell wanted more minutes than he was ever going to get at SU. He was more of a mid-major guy.)
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Post by day2 on Feb 25, 2024 0:16:09 GMT -5
The alternative was to start Williams. There were no other options. Had he started, he would have been pulled after two minutes and Junior still would have played 35 minutes. We actually needed Junior to start, though, because we’ve never had a player better or more consistent at scoring the first bucket of a half. I’m dead serious. And yes, Guerrier is soft as toilet paper. He could have beat out Junior, but he wasn’t up to the challenge. Just like he didn’t want to mix it up down low and would rather hang out around the perimeter. Weak sauce. Eh, that’s just not true. Guys Transferred because they knew Jimmy was coming in and playing ahead of them no matter what. There was no “beating him out”. Joe starting over and playing more than Kadary and the bullshit JB spewed about that “people talk about Kadary’s steals but Joe is top 10 in the ACC in steals”, etc. shows he was going to do what he wanted and say whatever he wanted to try to spin it. I’m calling bullshit. First of all, Girard isn’t JB’s son. Second, why didn’t Buddy start from day one? You have no proof that Junior was going to play ahead of anyone no matter what. He wasn’t even projected to be the starter. Williams was. Guerrier wasn’t up to the challenge. And it wasn’t only about Junior anyway. He wanted to be a 3 and D guy. I have seen you criticize our guys for not standing up to candy ass behavior from teams like Clemson. For being soft. I don’t know why Guerrier gets a free pass.
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Post by Ghost on Feb 25, 2024 0:24:29 GMT -5
The alternative was to start Williams. There were no other options. Had he started, he would have been pulled after two minutes and Junior still would have played 35 minutes. We actually needed Junior to start, though, because we’ve never had a player better or more consistent at scoring the first bucket of a half. I’m dead serious. And yes, Guerrier is soft as toilet paper. He could have beat out Junior, but he wasn’t up to the challenge. Just like he didn’t want to mix it up down low and would rather hang out around the perimeter. Weak sauce. Eh, that’s just not true. Guys Transferred because they knew Jimmy was coming in and playing ahead of them no matter what. There was no “beating him out”. Joe starting over and playing more than Kadary and the bullshit JB spewed about that “people talk about Kadary’s steals but Joe is top 10 in the ACC in steals”, etc. shows he was going to do what he wanted and say whatever he wanted to try to spin it. Yeah, I forgot all about the press conferences. Those were always insanely awkward during those years. It was just never a good look to be honest - just super weird and uncomfy at times.
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djcon57
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Post by djcon57 on Feb 25, 2024 0:30:25 GMT -5
As I stated before, I’m over it and into the “praise JB for what he did” phase. But I got to admit it was jarring when they showed that Jimmy, Buddy photo when he played at Cornell. Kind of hit again watching that. WE TOOK AN IVY LEAGUE PLAYER (honorable mention, not even like first team Ivy leaguer) AND STARTED HIM 35 MINS A GAME!!! Forget it being Jimmy. Give him a diff last name and of course, we had a terrible record that year The alternative was to start Williams. There were no other options. Had he started, he would have been pulled after two minutes and Junior still would have played 35 minutes. We actually needed Junior to start, though, because we’ve never had a player better or more consistent at scoring the first bucket of a half. I’m dead serious. And yes, Guerrier is soft as toilet paper. He could have beat out Junior, but he wasn’t up to the challenge. Just like he didn’t want to mix it up down low and would rather hang out around the perimeter. Weak sauce. The alternative would be to not recruit your son who played in the Ivy League. No one was begging for him on the team. Hence we had a losing record.
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Post by Ghost on Feb 25, 2024 0:36:28 GMT -5
Eh, that’s just not true. Guys Transferred because they knew Jimmy was coming in and playing ahead of them no matter what. There was no “beating him out”. Joe starting over and playing more than Kadary and the bullshit JB spewed about that “people talk about Kadary’s steals but Joe is top 10 in the ACC in steals”, etc. shows he was going to do what he wanted and say whatever he wanted to try to spin it. I’m calling bullshit. First of all, Girard isn’t JB’s son. Second, why didn’t Buddy start from day one? You have no proof that Junior was going to play ahead of anyone no matter what. He wasn’t even projected to be the starter. Williams was. Guerrier wasn’t up to the challenge. And it wasn’t only about Junior anyway. He wanted to be a 3 and D guy. I have seen you criticize our guys for not standing up to candy ass behavior from teams like Clemson. For being soft. I don’t know why Guerrier gets a free pass. It would have been unthinkable to start him straightaway. That being said, you didn't think after his abysmal start it was strange - just considering his penchant for yanking shooters who missed a shot that Buddy wouldn't get yanked in that same fashion? BJ Johnson, etc.....suffered that fate early and often. Buddy was always given far more leeway than anyone before him. Do you think JB would ever have allowed Braswell to just stand about incapable of dribbling and give him one task. Shoot threes. That's it. That's all you have to do to play, Bobby! Just shoot. You can suck at defense too. No worries. I think he did EVERYTHING to make sure he succeeded. Everybody else was expected to do what was expected from a Syracuse player taking on that position. Buddy never was. The icing on the cake was the tourney game against Baylor. I think he played all 40 minutes that game. He was so woefully overmatched it was insane. He couldn't even dribble. Jalen Carey sucked..........but he could have functioned better that game. At the very least he could have imitated a functioning basketball player much better than Buddy was capable of against that pressure. JB treated him differently - 100% differently than anyone before. BJ Johnson is probably a great comparison. A more complete player. Much more. That was also a team that needed shooting desperately and he was never given anywhere near that special treatment.
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Post by day2 on Feb 25, 2024 0:38:45 GMT -5
First of all, I’m pretty sure he said it wasn’t fun because they lost a lot of games. Second, I get why you have Boeheim Derangement Syndrome, I just have a different view. He earned the right to coach his kids. I agree with what Childress said at the beginning of the game. It’s an honor to coach your kids. If you’re not a parent, you’ll never understand. The criticism of Daddyball is overblown. He didn’t start either of his kids over someone more deserving. (That only happened with Girard and Richmond, and we can agree to disagree on the why.) Buddy came off the bench as a freshman and earned his spot as a starter. Junior started because Williams was on his way to becoming the biggest bust in school history. You can criticize the minutes played, although they were in line with other starters in the years leading up to Daddyball. Occasionally, JB did something dumb like putting Junior at center in the closing seconds against Wake. Those moves were few and far between if we’re being honest. BTW, anyone who transferred because of Daddyball is soft. Strap on a set and beat them out. I don't know. I think he made decisions with the roster that clearly catered to his kid. I can't think of another instance where putting ONE player in a position to succeed was the priority. There was never another player that was tagged a specialist, only asked to excel at that one thing, and given free reign to play 40 minutes a night as the rest of the game developed. He tossed out the entire JB manual - including, and most notably, an emphasis on defense, to make it so his kid could thrive. It's the epitome of daddyball. The program's focus was on JB and his kid, and their success, it stopped being about Syracuse's success as a program. Now, do I think JB tried his best to achieve success within those parameters, sure. But it all revolved around creating a team that was centered around Buddy.............. If JB was a HS History teacher who had supplemental duties coaching the varsity squad - have at it. After 30 years that dude deserves to coach his kid and maybe get some leeway. But it should never be mistaken that JB was paid handsomely, and his kid's afforded every opportunity in life because of those paychecks.....so did they REALLY deserve to cash in that last one BIG chip? Buddy and Jimmy already had a pretty insane head start in life and hoops without that..................so, not in my mind. Anyway, it's fun actually getting to debate this after all these years!!!! Definitely respect your views on it as well. I mean, Shrewsberry is a first-year coach at ND and his son is starting and getting more minutes as a freshman than Buddy. Braeden Shrewsberry offers little more than shooting as well. Tubby Smith had sons worse than Junior getting significant PT. Alford’s kid, too. Buddy was the best player on the team. Maybe that was by design like you’re saying. Given the roster JB put together, the only real option was to try and outscore the other team. The thing of it is, I was willing to give all of that a pass, because it was just one year. Just like the year McGwire broke the HR record. La Russa was batting the pitcher 8th that season. At the professional level.
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Post by day2 on Feb 25, 2024 0:50:57 GMT -5
The alternative was to start Williams. There were no other options. Had he started, he would have been pulled after two minutes and Junior still would have played 35 minutes. We actually needed Junior to start, though, because we’ve never had a player better or more consistent at scoring the first bucket of a half. I’m dead serious. And yes, Guerrier is soft as toilet paper. He could have beat out Junior, but he wasn’t up to the challenge. Just like he didn’t want to mix it up down low and would rather hang out around the perimeter. Weak sauce. The alternative would be to not recruit your son who played in the Ivy League. No one was begging for him on the team. Hence we had a losing record. There was an opportunity to bring in Junior and JB deserved to take advantage of it. We’ve tried to bring in other Ivy League players. There was one kid from Columbia and another from Harvard. We would have had a losing record with Williams starting, too. In a world without Junior, I don’t know if Guerrier would have stayed, knowing he would have been expected to play down low. Daddyball was a convenient excuse for him. We all talk about how players should rise to the challenge and win their roles instead of bailing and transferring out. Why should this be any different? No one actually tried to beat out Buddy or Junior. If there was a guy outplaying either of them in a reserve role, the fans and media alike would have called JB out for that. Instead, we have people making assumptions because of what happened with Girard - who still isn’t related to JB - and Richmond. It doesn’t add up.
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djcon57
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Post by djcon57 on Feb 25, 2024 0:51:08 GMT -5
Kentucky fans killed Saul Smith and they were still like a top 10 team at the time.
It’s a tough spot, if we won, it would have shut everyone up. Unfortunately, the team with Joe and his two sons is the worst team in his history at Syracuse.
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djcon57
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Post by djcon57 on Feb 25, 2024 0:53:46 GMT -5
The alternative would be to not recruit your son who played in the Ivy League. No one was begging for him on the team. Hence we had a losing record. There was an opportunity to bring in Junior and JB deserved to take advantage of it. We’ve tried to bring in other Ivy League players. There was one kid from Columbia and another from Harvard. We would have had a losing record with Williams starting, too. In a world without Junior, I don’t know if Guerrier would have stayed, knowing he would have been expected to play down low. Daddyball was a convenient excuse for him. We all talk about how players should rise to the challenge and win their roles instead of bailing and transferring out. Why should this be any different? No one actually tried to beat out Buddy or Junior. If there was a guy outplaying either of them in a reserve role, the fans and media alike would have called JB out for that. Instead, we have people making assumptions because of what happened with Girard - who still isn’t related to JB - and Richmond. It doesn’t add up. Sure it adds up.. He tried to recreate Buddys city rocks team and thought they would outscore everyone. He brought in Symir over recruiting ANY PG to try to take Joes spot. Forget Kadary, we literally didn’t bring in anyone. We got Symir day 1 of the portal and called it a day. Why was that? Also fwiw this isn’t second guessing or anything. I literally said it based on info I heard THE DAY Symir signed. Look at that thread suggesting Joe wasn’t gonna play 35. Hilarious syracusefan.com/threads/symir-torrence-transferring-from-marquette-to-syracuse.160462/page-2#post-3808763
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Post by day2 on Feb 25, 2024 0:59:49 GMT -5
Kentucky fans killed Saul Smith and they were still like a top 10 team at the time. It’s a tough spot, if we won, it would have shut everyone up. Unfortunately, the team with Joe and his two sons is the worst team in his history at Syracuse. And JB has to live with that.
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Post by orangedw on Feb 25, 2024 1:20:45 GMT -5
There was an opportunity to bring in Junior and JB deserved to take advantage of it. We’ve tried to bring in other Ivy League players. There was one kid from Columbia and another from Harvard. We would have had a losing record with Williams starting, too. In a world without Junior, I don’t know if Guerrier would have stayed, knowing he would have been expected to play down low. Daddyball was a convenient excuse for him. We all talk about how players should rise to the challenge and win their roles instead of bailing and transferring out. Why should this be any different? No one actually tried to beat out Buddy or Junior. If there was a guy outplaying either of them in a reserve role, the fans and media alike would have called JB out for that. Instead, we have people making assumptions because of what happened with Girard - who still isn’t related to JB - and Richmond. It doesn’t add up. Sure it adds up.. He tried to recreate Buddys city rocks team and thought they would outscore everyone. He brought in Symir over recruiting ANY PG to try to take Joes spot. Forget Kadary, we literally didn’t bring in anyone. We got Symir day 1 of the portal and called it a day. Why was that? Also fwiw this isn’t second guessing or anything. I literally said it based on info I heard THE DAY Symir signed. Look at that thread suggesting Joe wasn’t gonna play 35. Hilarious syracusefan.com/threads/symir-torrence-transferring-from-marquette-to-syracuse.160462/page-2#post-3808763I went at CuseRunner and GoSu96 in that thread. I’m satisfied with my contributions.
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Post by day2 on Feb 25, 2024 1:27:53 GMT -5
There was an opportunity to bring in Junior and JB deserved to take advantage of it. We’ve tried to bring in other Ivy League players. There was one kid from Columbia and another from Harvard. We would have had a losing record with Williams starting, too. In a world without Junior, I don’t know if Guerrier would have stayed, knowing he would have been expected to play down low. Daddyball was a convenient excuse for him. We all talk about how players should rise to the challenge and win their roles instead of bailing and transferring out. Why should this be any different? No one actually tried to beat out Buddy or Junior. If there was a guy outplaying either of them in a reserve role, the fans and media alike would have called JB out for that. Instead, we have people making assumptions because of what happened with Girard - who still isn’t related to JB - and Richmond. It doesn’t add up. Sure it adds up.. He tried to recreate Buddys city rocks team and thought they would outscore everyone. He brought in Symir over recruiting ANY PG to try to take Joes spot. Forget Kadary, we literally didn’t bring in anyone. We got Symir day 1 of the portal and called it a day. Why was that? Also fwiw this isn’t second guessing or anything. I literally said it based on info I heard THE DAY Symir signed. Look at that thread suggesting Joe wasn’t gonna play 35. Hilarious syracusefan.com/threads/symir-torrence-transferring-from-marquette-to-syracuse.160462/page-2#post-3808763To me, it was about trust. The year before, JB was dealing with Newton and Richmond drama. Both of those guys had shitty attitudes. They left and JB wanted to bring in players who would buy into their roles and not cause problems. I can’t blame him for that, other than the team wasn’t good enough. Yeah, JB was stubborn about Girard. He was just as stubborn about Frank Howard.
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Post by day2 on Feb 25, 2024 1:40:50 GMT -5
Sure it adds up.. He tried to recreate Buddys city rocks team and thought they would outscore everyone. He brought in Symir over recruiting ANY PG to try to take Joes spot. Forget Kadary, we literally didn’t bring in anyone. We got Symir day 1 of the portal and called it a day. Why was that? Also fwiw this isn’t second guessing or anything. I literally said it based on info I heard THE DAY Symir signed. Look at that thread suggesting Joe wasn’t gonna play 35. Hilarious syracusefan.com/threads/symir-torrence-transferring-from-marquette-to-syracuse.160462/page-2#post-3808763I went at CuseRunner and GoSu96 in that thread. I’m satisfied with my contributions. Your Beard/Hurley comments didn’t age as well.
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Post by orangedw on Feb 25, 2024 1:44:34 GMT -5
I went at CuseRunner and GoSu96 in that thread. I’m satisfied with my contributions. Your Beard/Hurley comments didn’t age as well. The Beard comment was factual, no?
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Post by day2 on Feb 25, 2024 1:49:39 GMT -5
Your Beard/Hurley comments didn’t age as well. The Beard comment was factual, no? I just meant he wound up being a scumbag. Oates, too. Hurley’s a jackass, but at least he doesn’t beat his wife or cover up murders. It was all in jest. I actually came back to add the word, “unfortunately,” but you already replied.
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