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Post by sobecuse on Mar 30, 2019 0:41:56 GMT -5
Lol. Nice. Hard to say about Quincy G. I like that he has some muscle and isn’t a beanpole. He’s not Wiggins tho. More like a CJ Fair type, IMO. Fine but we need production right away especially if Oshae officially bolts.
I have no idea about PG and the offense. Edwards seems like a little band aid to cover up the C recruiting woes. He won’t be ready for awhile. Honestly, this could be a losing season but fortunately other teams in the conference are losing a lot.
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walsh
I'm not as new
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Post by walsh on Mar 30, 2019 1:00:10 GMT -5
I wrote that our centers were bad. I wrote that we needed two good centers in the 2019 class. I wrote that we have not been recruiting to SU standards. I wrote that we should have a big man coach that is not a guard. I got banned for it. Well guess what??? I was right about all of it! Suck on that one! Sincerely, Jazz first off, that board was dumb to ban you. you're a great fan of the boys and provide an insightful perspective, and the only sin you're guilty of is wanting success. also, i wouldn't say that any of the points you're making here or wrong - or points you've made w/in other posts about JB slipping - are wrong either. we do have question marks at center, we do have question marks at PG, and it's clear that our recruiting has taken a hit since hop left the program. but i would encourage you to have a little bit of faith in JB and the staff. he's been doing this for a long time, and might be the most knowledgeable coach in the history of the college game. there's a reason he and K are as close as they are. these calls of forcing out boeheim are short-sighted. the college coaching fraternity is extremely close. there is nothing more boeheim could have done for our program and our university. these are certainly not the glory days, but you're kidding yourself if you think any of JB's eventual replacement candidates aren't going to follow this situation very closely. i just feel a bit of a "sky is falling" mentality, and while i think the reasoning behind it is sound, i just think we owe it to coach and to ourselves to give the staff the benefit of the doubt to develop a strong corps as buddy and jim finish out their SU careers. there are so many question marks for next year. it could be rough, but how many times in the past few seasons have we come into preseason with sky-high expectations only to see them crash and burn? here's my point: there's no cost in being optimistic and putting some faith in JB and the staff to put out a competitive team. they will get a lot of experience and familiarity as a squad even if it is brutal, and there is a plan in place beyond it. What do we have to lose in having a bit of faith?
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Post by sobecuse on Mar 30, 2019 1:51:36 GMT -5
Good points Walsh. My rebuttal would be simply that we just don’t know re: next coach at Syracuse. All we know is All-Zone and a deliberate pace. Let’s say a PROVEN new coach (no GD GMac or Autry) comes into SU with the budget, facilities, and such. Totally new and fresh style more in tune with the current game. Pretty confident that it can’t be worse than we are now. Like it or not we are being hurt perception-wise by All-Zone and running a ball stopping/ISO offense without lottery picks. It’s upsetting watching these Tourney teams have WAY more cohesive talent, structure, physical players, etc., than SU. It’s so obvious watching these other teams. We shouldn’t be afraid of change. Praying that the damn Zone befuddles teams enough and the offense just does enough to squeak by is not good at all.
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walsh
I'm not as new
Posts: 405
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Post by walsh on Mar 30, 2019 3:15:24 GMT -5
Good points Walsh. My rebuttal would be simply that we just don’t know re: next coach at Syracuse. All we know is All-Zone and a deliberate pace. Let’s say a PROVEN new coach (no GD GMac or Autry) comes into SU with the budget, facilities, and such. Totally new and fresh style more in tune with the current game. Pretty confident that it can’t be worse than we are now. Like it or not we are being hurt perception-wise by All-Zone and running a ball stopping/ISO offense without lottery picks. It’s upsetting watching these Tourney teams have WAY more cohesive talent, structure, physical players, etc., than SU. It’s so obvious watching these other teams. We shouldn’t be afraid of change. Praying that the damn Zone befuddles teams enough and the offense just does enough to squeak by is not good at all. Unless Mike Hopkins is coming back - which I wouldnt rule out, but dont expect - the odds of our next coach running zone are very small. It would have to be a coincidence. There’s a better chance of the next coach happening to run zone than our next coach being GMac or Red. Not to disparige those guys at all, but having expierence as a D1 HC will be a nonstarter. I would say we actually are well perceived as a program. We get kids drafted despite running zone. We have a huge fanbase with illuminati type media connections. We have deep pockets. We have good facilities. We have a well established pipeline for Canadian and NYC talent. We have a good board and a good AD and are a top teir University. You’re 100% right about the culture, depth, and physicality we’re witnessing having success this year. Those scholly and recruiting restrictions will have a ripple effect that will last past this year. It also doesn’t help that we’ve been getting a bad roll of the dice in terms of kids we were counting on leaving the program. With Blazey and Thompson, we would have been a Final Four team this season. You don’t need 5* one and dones to compete for national titles. Auburn are the hottest team in the country, and their best player is unranked. Pushing out Boeheim would be such a terrible look. Next year will involve growing pains, but it’s obvious there is a plan to have a deep, talented team very soon. Don’t count out Jimmy B the man is a shark and we should embrace The craziness because i would take it over the unknown. But after he retires let’s lock up Pat Belien or Nate Oates.
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Post by JazzNC on Mar 30, 2019 5:46:53 GMT -5
Walsh,
I do care VERY much about the program. I thank you for your kind words. Because you have written such a thoughtful response, I don't want to give you a knee jerk reaction. I'm getting ready for a very busy day at work, and then plan to head out to dinner tonight. I WILL respond back to you, I promise. But I want to give you the same respect and time you showed me with your insightful post. I will say this much... there is probably some middle ground between our two views. I owe it to you to respond when I can give you my best. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, and managing to challenge me without being a jerk about it. Give me 24 hours or so, and I will write back. Go UVA, Zags, and Purdue!!! At least UNC is out!
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Post by sobecuse on Mar 30, 2019 8:26:58 GMT -5
Good points Walsh. My rebuttal would be simply that we just don’t know re: next coach at Syracuse. All we know is All-Zone and a deliberate pace. Let’s say a PROVEN new coach (no GD GMac or Autry) comes into SU with the budget, facilities, and such. Totally new and fresh style more in tune with the current game. Pretty confident that it can’t be worse than we are now. Like it or not we are being hurt perception-wise by All-Zone and running a ball stopping/ISO offense without lottery picks. It’s upsetting watching these Tourney teams have WAY more cohesive talent, structure, physical players, etc., than SU. It’s so obvious watching these other teams. We shouldn’t be afraid of change. Praying that the damn Zone befuddles teams enough and the offense just does enough to squeak by is not good at all. Unless Mike Hopkins is coming back - which I wouldnt rule out, but dont expect - the odds of our next coach running zone are very small. It would have to be a coincidence. There’s a better chance of the next coach happening to run zone than our next coach being GMac or Red. Not to disparige those guys at all, but having expierence as a D1 HC will be a nonstarter. I would say we actually are well perceived as a program. We get kids drafted despite running zone. We have a huge fanbase with illuminati type media connections. We have deep pockets. We have good facilities. We have a well established pipeline for Canadian and NYC talent. We have a good board and a good AD and are a top teir University. You’re 100% right about the culture, depth, and physicality we’re witnessing having success this year. Those scholly and recruiting restrictions will have a ripple effect that will last past this year. It also doesn’t help that we’ve been getting a bad roll of the dice in terms of kids we were counting on leaving the program. With Blazey and Thompson, we would have been a Final Four team this season. You don’t need 5* one and dones to compete for national titles. Auburn are the hottest team in the country, and their best player is unranked. Pushing out Boeheim would be such a terrible look. Next year will involve growing pains, but it’s obvious there is a plan to have a deep, talented team very soon. Don’t count out Jimmy B the man is a shark and we should embrace The craziness because i would take it over the unknown. But after he retires let’s lock up Pat Belien or Nate Oates. Appreciate the time. We are all die hard fans. I don’t agree with a lot of what you wrote and time will tell the ultimate answer(s). Sanctions doesn’t explain the recruiting misses and turning our noses at players like Jalen Brunson, Monte Morris, and Tremont Waters. Hopkins and Boeheim didn’t need to be on Summer Vacations with Team USA. Bazely and Thompson would not have been the missing pieces to get us to a Final 4, IMO. One is an overrated beanpole (some skill of course) and the other can’t play defense and barely gets off the pine at SHall. We still had lead guard problems and lack of team speed as a whole. No question the fan base is great, rabid, and the University has cache. Wildhack seems to be the right hire. I myself, despite the criticisms, went to Dayton and Detroit last year so I support them. But, I do NOT like our brand of ball now nor the trajectory. I’m sorry but having to play freaking Marek Dolezaj (and I like the kid) all these minutes at the 5 is beyond asinine. That just illustrates what sort of shape we are in. Syracuse basketball should not be recruiting Jesse Edwards. Losing Symir Torrence right in our backyard to finalists Cincinnati/Marquette is not acceptable. The players’ fundamentals seem to be eroding year by year. I question some of the assistants as well with perhaps lack of teaching and development. The mental mistakes and lack of fundamentals such as the execution of basic screening/PnR is hard to watch. I know Boeheim isn’t a real teacher and communicator (especially in this stage of his career) the way Izzo/K/Pitino communicate and drill the players. So that makes we wonder if the assistants do much of this. Pushing Hopkins out I’m sure still doesn’t resonate well with many including some H.S. coaches. There are only so many coaches (H.S./AAU) who want to send their kids to this system. Even if I’m not entirely right it still narrows down your targets and and makes it more difficult. Slimmer pickings. We will be heading into ANOTHER season without a true PG. HW doesn’t count because he never would have received many minutes even if healthy. Now, they DID try to fix the PG problems by bringing in guys like Gillon and Thorpe. Frank was being recruited over with Quade Green as well. Still, all this backfired unfortunately. Needless to say the combo-2G conversions to PG aren’t working. I certainly hope for better times ahead but don’t have the faith and certainly not any tangible evidence right now since we’re going to be depending heavily on a lot of newbies and Carey. Dicey. The fact that we’re even having these debates illustrates that the program isn’t even close to where it should be. LGO! Actually, the guy who got injured for Auburn, Okeke, is a consensus 4*. Yes, they don’t generally have studs but their style makes it easier to recruit to and have success, IMO. They aren’t recruiting for the Zone and trying to find all that length. They play up tempo with GREAT ballhandlers, speed, and shooters all over the floor. They don’t care about height. They spread the court and use those undersized/tough big guys. This is where the game is and has been moving towards.
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Post by JazzNC on Mar 30, 2019 23:36:44 GMT -5
Here goes...
Walsh, I appreciate that you recognize how deeply I care about the team. If I was just some troll trying to stir up trouble over on the other board, I wouldn't still be posting here with such gusto. I think it's pretty cool that you realize that my criticism of the program means I care. I have been a fan for over 40 years, and I'm extremely passionate.
Like you, I agree that JB is an incredibly knowledgeable coach; one of the best EVER. I also have confidence in his ability to coach even at his current age. Of course I believe that JB has given his blood sweat and tears to the University. That's what makes the decline of our program so heartbreaking.
What you may not realize, is that I don't want JB to be fired, but I'm not sure it's avoidable. I sincerely wish it were possible for him to recognize that he's damaging the very program he built by staying. I care so much, and I want to remember JB as the legendary hall of fame coach, not the coach that trashed the very program he built. JB is like many older men. No one ever wants to concede that the gig is up.
Let me share with you a story. I lost my father a week before Christmas this year, but the year before that he had neuropathy in his feet so badly he couldn't feel the brake and gas pedal, and subsequently crashed his car into the wall in the garage. Even with a hole in the wall, he still didn't believe that he should lose his drivers license.
JB is a lot like my father. He's an old guy who even with statistical evidence of decline and recruiting woes, wants to hang on too long (similar to most athletes). I don't think JB can see what I and others see (the dissolution of the program) because seeing that reality is scary as shit for him. JB wouldn't know what to do with his life without basketball. Just like my father couldn't imagine life without driving.
And while it might look bad on the part of the University to ask JB, to step down, how much further do we allow the Syracuse brand to disintegrate? This really is a fair question. I live in North Carolina, and I have friends who are fans of Duke and Carolina. I get asked on a fairly regular basis "What's wrong with Syracuse? You guys used to get up and down the court. You used to have great guards and bigs. You're just not the same." And it hurts because they're right. When I first moved here there was concern about Syracuse being in the ACC. Now we're seen no differently than say Wake Forest.
You say there "is no cost on being optimistic and putting some faith in the staff to put out a competitive team." Here is where the biggest difference between our stances lies. I think if I had let my father continue to drive, he could have killed someone. I think if we let JB and the staff continue on status quo, we are killing our brand. And as much as I appreciate JB, basketball is, like it or not, a business. In a perfect world loyalty should be more important than brand value, but well, it's not a perfect world.
That said, In order to maintain the SU brand, we must be able to recruit. I have said this multiple times but I'll try to explain it again. You've acknowledged that we're not winning the recruiting battle for the five star guys. And you're right, that the programs that recruit three and four star guys can beat the blue bloods because experience often trumps one and done teams. In fact, Nova has done it twice recently. But there is a fundamental difference. Jay Wright isn't the oldest D1 coach. If you can't land the elite recruits, then you have to try to land the "program" guys. That's a problem because these kids want to know who their coach will be for the duration of their college career. It's a dilemma.
So, my final thoughts are this...
I want JB to win another championship. I'd probably cry like a baby if he did. But I also wanted my father to keep driving so he would be happy, and not lose his will to live. In this case, I think JB needs to be protected from himself. Trust me, he doesn't want to be remembered for being the only coach to destroy the program he built.
I won't ridicule you for your passion and desire to support Coach Boeheim because I know your heart is in the right place. Please know that even though I may disagree with what's best for the Syracuse program, my heart is also in the right place. The problem is there truly is no easy answer. I just wish it would go away. The thought of this dragging out for 3-4 more years might drive me to drink.
Anyhow, thank you for your kind words. Thank you for being a brother. We all want what's best... you're ok in my book. I hope for the best possible outcome for everyone involved. LGO.
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Post by JazzNC on Nov 6, 2019 23:00:06 GMT -5
Looks like Jazz is still right! No play out of the center position. Sidibe is a stiff. We needed a college ready big, but we got two more beanpoles. We’re soft as shit. 34 whopping points tonight against a very inexperienced UVA team? All we did was chuck up 3’s with no ball movement, and no penetration. Be glad I’m not on your board. This was epically bad. Out right garbage coaching too.
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Post by deano on Nov 7, 2019 9:06:37 GMT -5
Do like i did and email ADJW and voice your opinion. He needs to make JB either change something up or freaking go, which I would rather see the latter.
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Post by rustyorange on Nov 7, 2019 9:33:25 GMT -5
Wow, Jazz. I didn’t know that happened to you. I just read through this thread, and if what you’re saying is true, you really got the shaft for speaking the truth. We are so bad. Sure it’s the first game of the season, but you can’t correct poor recruiting, and lack of size/strength during the season. Certain players needed to get stronger and improve their ability to drive the ball, and handle pressure. These players... Carey, Hughes, Buddy, Dolejaz, and Sidibe don’t look one bit better against tough D.
I don’t know how this gets fixed. It’s so sad.
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Post by sobecuse on Nov 7, 2019 10:01:49 GMT -5
I was banned too. Simply voicing concerns with the recruiting and how JB runs his ‘offense.’ The lack of finding competent PG/C and such. The poor fundamentals.
I perused their board this morning. Many more are voicing their displeasure just like we did. Based on FACTS. The mods are now beginning to loosen their grips re: censorship and not allowing anything negative about JB and the program to be said. Well, there is nothing really they can do now. The proof is in the pudding.
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Post by JazzNC on Nov 7, 2019 12:45:33 GMT -5
Dear Syracusefan.com Mods:
Another message from your favorite poster ever:
We should’ve prioritized a big (with some strength) two years ago, just like I said. I also said Sidibe wouldn’t be ok. For the record, if he is actually ok that means you grossly overestimated his abilities recruiting him. Either way I was right. I was also right for complaining about our ineptitude to recruit a true point guard.
Now for something new:
Having shooters won’t matter against elite teams because we have no one capable of taking it to the rim against tight physical coverage. Any team with half a brain will guard us on the perimeter tightly, and if we do blow by, no big deal. Our players are too weak to finish. This is the same shitty and ridiculous iso-ball offense, and crap rebounding because we’re smaller/weaker at every position.
You better get Newton and Kadary to sign their LOI’s in the early signing period because after the shit show I just watched they may just change their minds.
JB IS DESTROYING THE VERY PROGRAM HE BUILT. WAKE UP.
Not 15 Fucking games... that’s right. We’ll be lucky to win that many this year.
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Post by tomcatcuse on Nov 7, 2019 14:32:23 GMT -5
Dear Syracusefan.com Mods: Another message from your favorite poster ever: We should’ve prioritized a big (with some strength) two years ago, just like I said. I also said Sidibe wouldn’t be ok. For the record, if he is actually ok that means you grossly overestimated his abilities recruiting him. Either way I was right. I was also right for complaining about our ineptitude to recruit a true point guard. Now for something new: Having shooters won’t matter against elite teams because we have no one capable of taking it to the rim against tight physical coverage. Any team with half a brain will guard us on the perimeter tightly, and if we do blow by, no big deal. Our players are too weak to finish. This is the same shitty and ridiculous iso-ball offense, and crap rebounding because we’re smaller/weaker at every position. You better get Newton and Kadary to sign their LOI’s in the early signing period because after the shit show I just watched they may just change their minds. JB IS DESTROYING THE VERY PROGRAM HE BUILT. WAKE UP. Not 15 Fucking games... that’s right. We’ll be lucky to win that many this year. Wow, that’s harsh brother. I usually try to be in the middle, but your post about recruiting is spot on. If we can’t land five star guys anymore, we’re going to struggle recruiting at all because the guys that aren’t viewed as one/done want to know who their coach will be for the entire time they attend Syracuse. I think you’re also right that we better lock up Woody and Kadary early. It’s just an awful bind to be in. The only way out is fresh coaching blood. With the right hire, we’d be back. Look at how quickly Louisville reloaded.
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Post by sobecuse on Nov 7, 2019 15:07:29 GMT -5
Dear Syracusefan.com Mods: Another message from your favorite poster ever: We should’ve prioritized a big (with some strength) two years ago, just like I said. I also said Sidibe wouldn’t be ok. For the record, if he is actually ok that means you grossly overestimated his abilities recruiting him. Either way I was right. I was also right for complaining about our ineptitude to recruit a true point guard. Now for something new: Having shooters won’t matter against elite teams because we have no one capable of taking it to the rim against tight physical coverage. Any team with half a brain will guard us on the perimeter tightly, and if we do blow by, no big deal. Our players are too weak to finish. This is the same shitty and ridiculous iso-ball offense, and crap rebounding because we’re smaller/weaker at every position. You better get Newton and Kadary to sign their LOI’s in the early signing period because after the shit show I just watched they may just change their minds. JB IS DESTROYING THE VERY PROGRAM HE BUILT. WAKE UP. Not 15 Fucking games... that’s right. We’ll be lucky to win that many this year. Wow, that’s harsh brother. I usually try to be in the middle, but your post about recruiting is spot on. If we can’t land five star guys anymore, we’re going to struggle recruiting at all because the guys that aren’t viewed as one/done want to know who their coach will be for the entire time they attend Syracuse. I think you’re also right that we better lock up Woody and Kadary early. It’s just an awful bind to be in. The only way out is fresh coaching blood. With the right hire, we’d be back. Look at how quickly Louisville reloaded. The problem also I think is if this slop continues on the court; what good recruit is going to want to play in this system? They won’t. Even if a presser happens and JB and Wildhack declare that JB will coach til 80. They won’t come. We’ll have to get 2/3* recruits but JB doesn’t run a system that breeds cohesive offense, movement, proper fundamentals. We need the length for the damn zone and those kids are usually really raw from a b-ball and physicality standpoint, albeit maybe long. I mean no excuse for last night. A team like Butler, Xavier, Creighton, Nevada, etc., could’ve scored more against UVA. Program is on life support.
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Post by JazzNC on Nov 7, 2019 22:45:45 GMT -5
Wow, that’s harsh brother. I usually try to be in the middle, but your post about recruiting is spot on. If we can’t land five star guys anymore, we’re going to struggle recruiting at all because the guys that aren’t viewed as one/done want to know who their coach will be for the entire time they attend Syracuse. I think you’re also right that we better lock up Woody and Kadary early. It’s just an awful bind to be in. The only way out is fresh coaching blood. With the right hire, we’d be back. Look at how quickly Louisville reloaded. The problem also I think is if this slop continues on the court; what good recruit is going to want to play in this system? They won’t. Even if a presser happens and JB and Wildhack declare that JB will coach til 80. They won’t come. We’ll have to get 2/3* recruits but JB doesn’t run a system that breeds cohesive offense, movement, proper fundamentals. We need the length for the damn zone and those kids are usually really raw from a b-ball and physicality standpoint, albeit maybe long. I mean no excuse for last night. A team like Butler, Xavier, Creighton, Nevada, etc., could’ve scored more against UVA. Program is on life support. Exactly. No good recruit is coming here as long as JB is running the show. It’s his job to put a competitive team on the court, and bring in the players needed to field such a team. That’s not happening. He can’t get it done. We are a program in serious free fall. I saw it coming two seasons ago. Truly truly sad.
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