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Post by two3zone on Jan 16, 2024 12:31:26 GMT -5
We just don’t get production from too many positions and players. That is roster management and causes to usage rates for decent players that are over what type of player they should be. It sucks. I would take a rebuild if we actually were rebuilding but we aren’t rebuilding. Mintz will be gone after the year. The forwards are a mess, the center position is a mess, and we are going all in on Starling who better improve for these minutes we are sacrificing this season. Again I like Autry but man this program is a mess. 3 straight non NCAA seasons hell we haven’t made the NiT the last 2 years. This program isn’t going to be a national player again for a while. Like top 25 for the entire season for multiple seasons in a row. It’s rare when I disagree with you, you’re literally spot on with everything you write and I want to enter the discussion but you literally say everything I’m thinking. So I’ll just piggy back off of this lol
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Post by cusefan2016 on Jan 17, 2024 11:02:15 GMT -5
Not sure I agree that the forwards are a mess. If we can bring in a portal center our starting forwards can be Maliq and Donnie.
There is no doubt I wish we were more competitive vs the high end competition. Forget even winning, just not getting blown out (which is what have really hurt our metrics and kept us off the bubble thus far). But the roster from a construction and talent standpoint was left such a mess by JB that it was never going to be an overnight fix. Lets also not forget that Jesse was basically back until WVU threw the bag and whatever happened behind the scenes there. If he was our starting center we would be much more formidable.
Ideally with one more year of the portal (that includes some guys on the team now getting "the talk") and two recruits coming in up that our up to our old standard we should be in a much better place than last year.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2024 11:19:57 GMT -5
Not sure I agree that the forwards are a mess. If we can bring in a portal center our starting forwards can be Maliq and Donnie. There is no doubt I wish we were more competitive vs the high end competition. Forget even winning, just not getting blown out (which is what have really hurt our metrics and kept us off the bubble thus far). But the roster from a construction and talent standpoint was left such a mess by JB that it was never going to be an overnight fix. Lets also not forget that Jesse was basically back until WVU threw the bag and whatever happened behind the scenes there. If he was our starting center we would be much more formidable. Ideally with one more year of the portal (that includes some guys on the team now getting "the talk") and two recruits coming in up that our up to our old standard we should be in a much better place than last year. Next year can we possibly see Bell at the 2 if we bring in a solid portal center? A starting lineup with portal center at the 5, Brown/Freeman 3/4, Bell/Starling sharing the 2, and Copeland/Moore at 1, or is Moore more of a 2 guy? Lots of options, and tough decisions with next year's roster Would need to figure out where Taylor and Westry fit in there but we will be a much better team next year especially with a solid portal center. Loss of Judah means a lot in terms of a dominant player who can take over games but I think we become better in terms of team play and chemistry without him.
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Post by orangedw on Jan 17, 2024 12:35:08 GMT -5
Not sure I agree that the forwards are a mess. If we can bring in a portal center our starting forwards can be Maliq and Donnie. There is no doubt I wish we were more competitive vs the high end competition. Forget even winning, just not getting blown out (which is what have really hurt our metrics and kept us off the bubble thus far). But the roster from a construction and talent standpoint was left such a mess by JB that it was never going to be an overnight fix. Lets also not forget that Jesse was basically back until WVU threw the bag and whatever happened behind the scenes there. If he was our starting center we would be much more formidable. Ideally with one more year of the portal (that includes some guys on the team now getting "the talk") and two recruits coming in up that our up to our old standard we should be in a much better place than last year. Next year can we possibly see Bell at the 2 if we bring in a solid portal center? A starting lineup with portal center at the 5, Brown/Freeman 3/4, Bell/Starling sharing the 2, and Copeland/Moore at 1, or is Moore more of a 2 guy? Lots of options, and tough decisions with next year's roster Would need to figure out where Taylor and Westry fit in there but we will be a much better team next year especially with a solid portal center. Loss of Judah means a lot in terms of a dominant player who can take over games but I think we become better in terms of team play and chemistry without him. That’s a 1990s lineup. Not enough shooters or ball handling.
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Post by hofceluck on Jan 17, 2024 12:47:51 GMT -5
I’d rather bring in shooters and roll the dice on McLeod.
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Post by two3zone on Jan 18, 2024 8:39:26 GMT -5
Carey plays 7 bad minutes and he’s the new board favorite. They really want to love white players, that’s the only thing I can up with.
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Post by orangedw on Jan 19, 2024 11:17:56 GMT -5
Carey plays 7 bad minutes and he’s the new board favorite. They really want to love white players, that’s the only thing I can up with. When a guy gets praised for being able to run up and down the court, you know expectations are all messed up. The “hey, he gives you 5 fouls!” lines never made sense to me either. Too many fans willing to excuse playing 4 on 5 as acceptable because our center recruiting was horrific for so long. It doesn’t have to be this way. Theoretically, our center recruiting should improve now that we aren’t married to the zone. The stocky 6’8 guys who aren’t big shot blockers but can score and rebound should now be in play for us, like they are for everybody else. I think we just need to show that we know how to utilize them offensively.
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Post by ottointhegrotto on Jan 20, 2024 10:00:26 GMT -5
McCleod I've always been skeptical of, but he's bad in ways I didn't expect. One of the announcers put it well - he's only able to make one play per possession. He can contest a shot, but he's not getting that rebound. He can get an offensive rebound, but he's probably not getting a follow up bucket. It's maddening. Seems absolutely clueless.
Hima is what he is. I suspect this is his last season of college ball.
Carey is obviously not good right now, but athletically he's at least a little intriguing, and even though he's a goofball, it is clear he plays hard. For a big, that can make a difference. I don't think he'll ever be an amazing player here, but given the situation we're in now, I don't mind seeing him in the rotation. The reason why Carey needs minutes now is so he's ready for more minutes! Nobody on the other board got my Ghost logic on that one.
So, Patterson... I don't know, I have a sneaky feeling that he's going to end up pretty decent and he'll be in the rotation next season. He really doesn't make sense on this season's roster but he's there because the staff and Griff especially believe in him. It's not common these days to get a guy comfortable putting in the time for a future payoff, so the fact he's agreeable to redshirt and working on things is something I'd like to see work out. Supposedly Griff truly believes Patterson will be an even better 2 way center than Jesse was for us. That's a big statement and I hope he's right.
Last thing, since Taylor came up, he may be one of the worst players from a mechanical perspective we've ever had. The shooting form is all over the place, and I don't get it, because it didn't look like that last season. His footwork is incredibly bad. Some fans want him to shoot more, but we've never had a player less effective at getting into scoring position. His feet and body positioning are a mess on the perimeter, and he has zero ability to transition from the catch to a shot because of it. He's clearly being encouraged to shoot more, but because the mechanics are so bad, that means he's rushing through his motion to get the shot up instead of fixing the other stuff. Maybe that's still better, but I suspect it's not going to result in great shooting percentages. For as much as Bell drives people nuts for being one-dimensional his skills in shot prep are the polar opposite of Taylor's. Bell's economy getting into shooting position and letting it rip is off the charts good. It blows people's minds to think like this because it seems like Taylor having a big game in a loss to Bryant cemented fan trust in him, but Taylor should learn from Bell.
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Post by orangedw on Jan 20, 2024 10:10:47 GMT -5
I realized that my skepticism for “he’s athletic!” comments about centers that stink goes way back to Igor hyping up Ethan Cole. Lol.
I think people used to say Brennan-McBride was athletic too.
My kingdom for an Arinze Onuaku clone….
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Post by ottointhegrotto on Jan 20, 2024 11:16:59 GMT -5
I realized that my skepticism for “he’s athletic!” comments about centers that stink goes way back to Igor hyping up Ethan Cole. Lol. I think people used to say Brennan-McBride was athletic too. My kingdom for an Arinze Onuaku clone…. Arinze was amazing and I'll go to my grave believing we horrifically underused him on the offensive end of the floor. Yeah, he bricked free throws, whatever. Dude had moves and could score efficiently whenever he was given the chance. Also felt similarly about Mooke Watkins. Both he and Arinze had a cup of coffee in the NBA. But, we had ball dominant guards to chuck up shots, so whatever.
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Post by orangedw on Jan 20, 2024 11:23:11 GMT -5
I realized that my skepticism for “he’s athletic!” comments about centers that stink goes way back to Igor hyping up Ethan Cole. Lol. I think people used to say Brennan-McBride was athletic too. My kingdom for an Arinze Onuaku clone…. Arinze was amazing and I'll go to my grave believing we horrifically underused him on the offensive end of the floor. Yeah, he bricked free throws, whatever. Dude had moves and could score efficiently whenever he was given the chance. Also felt similarly about Mooke Watkins. Both he and Arinze had a cup of coffee in the NBA. But, we had ball dominant guards to chuck up shots, so whatever. 100% on Onuaku. He had great hands, got great position, had good feet, and basically was a bucket whenever we got him the ball. Mookie - yeah, he probably was underutilized as a senior. He gradually got better throughout his career and was actually pretty good his senior year. Nobody talks about it because he had such a great career with so many big shots, the Kansas and BYU tourney games, and then the 2006 BET magic…..but GMac pretty much stunk it up most of his senior year. Devo and Mookie should’ve been featured more.
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Post by ottointhegrotto on Jan 20, 2024 11:51:51 GMT -5
Arinze was amazing and I'll go to my grave believing we horrifically underused him on the offensive end of the floor. Yeah, he bricked free throws, whatever. Dude had moves and could score efficiently whenever he was given the chance. Also felt similarly about Mooke Watkins. Both he and Arinze had a cup of coffee in the NBA. But, we had ball dominant guards to chuck up shots, so whatever. 100% on Onuaku. He had great hands, got great position, had good feet, and basically was a bucket whenever we got him the ball. Mookie - yeah, he probably was underutilized as a senior. He gradually got better throughout his career and was actually pretty good his senior year. Nobody talks about it because he had such a great career with so many big shots, the Kansas and BYU tourney games, and then the 2006 BET magic…..but GMac pretty much stunk it up most of his senior year. Devo and Mookie should’ve been featured more. Yeah, I hated that season that people actually argued that GMAC "had" to take bad shots so that the defense would have to defend him tightly, and ohbytheway he has nobody to pass to anyway, as if defenses weren't completely comfortable with him putting up shots that were basically turnovers, and as if he didn't have fringe NBA guys in Nichols and Watkins, that ohbytheway made it further in the Association than GMAC's summer league and G league appearances.
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Post by orangedw on Jan 20, 2024 11:57:18 GMT -5
100% on Onuaku. He had great hands, got great position, had good feet, and basically was a bucket whenever we got him the ball. Mookie - yeah, he probably was underutilized as a senior. He gradually got better throughout his career and was actually pretty good his senior year. Nobody talks about it because he had such a great career with so many big shots, the Kansas and BYU tourney games, and then the 2006 BET magic…..but GMac pretty much stunk it up most of his senior year. Devo and Mookie should’ve been featured more. Yeah, I hated that season that people actually argued that GMAC "had" to take bad shots so that the defense would have to defend him tightly, and ohbytheway he has nobody to pass to anyway, as if defenses weren't completely comfortable with him putting up shots that were basically turnovers, and as if he didn't have fringe NBA guys in Nichols and Watkins, that ohbytheway made it further in the Association than GMAC's summer league and G league appearances. Right. Devo and Nichols could both shoot and score. Two senior big guys who were decent in Watkins and Roberts. GMac’s chucking and 35% from the field were a problem.
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Post by hofceluck on Jan 20, 2024 11:59:47 GMT -5
100% on Onuaku. He had great hands, got great position, had good feet, and basically was a bucket whenever we got him the ball. Mookie - yeah, he probably was underutilized as a senior. He gradually got better throughout his career and was actually pretty good his senior year. Nobody talks about it because he had such a great career with so many big shots, the Kansas and BYU tourney games, and then the 2006 BET magic…..but GMac pretty much stunk it up most of his senior year. Devo and Mookie should’ve been featured more. Yeah, I hated that season that people actually argued that GMAC "had" to take bad shots so that the defense would have to defend him tightly, and ohbytheway he has nobody to pass to anyway, as if defenses weren't completely comfortable with him putting up shots that were basically turnovers, and as if he didn't have fringe NBA guys in Nichols and Watkins, that ohbytheway made it further in the Association than GMAC's summer league and G league appearances. I guess I thought I was always taking crazy pills but I would say routinely when Gmac and even Donte were here that you don’t take bad shots a few seconds into the shot clock that are STILL GONNA BE AVAILABLE with a few seconds LEFT on the shot clock. As far as arinze is concerned maybe now that we aren’t doing 95 percent zone maybe we will recruit bigs like Onuaku who, while maybe not ideally tall for Boeheims zone are maybe a little more offensively skilled. No more having four center projects in the roster please.
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Post by Ghost on Feb 9, 2024 22:02:30 GMT -5
Yeah, I hated that season that people actually argued that GMAC "had" to take bad shots so that the defense would have to defend him tightly, and ohbytheway he has nobody to pass to anyway, as if defenses weren't completely comfortable with him putting up shots that were basically turnovers, and as if he didn't have fringe NBA guys in Nichols and Watkins, that ohbytheway made it further in the Association than GMAC's summer league and G league appearances. I guess I thought I was always taking crazy pills but I would say routinely when Gmac and even Donte were here that you don’t take bad shots a few seconds into the shot clock that are STILL GONNA BE AVAILABLE with a few seconds LEFT on the shot clock. As far as arinze is concerned maybe now that we aren’t doing 95 percent zone maybe we will recruit bigs like Onuaku who, while maybe not ideally tall for Boeheims zone are maybe a little more offensively skilled. No more having four center projects in the roster please. Yeah, I always felt like Arinze was the mold we should go for. Still wish we ended up with Chino, or whatever his name was. What was that story? For awhile I would have been happy if we went the Notre Dame route and just got some lumbering lumberjack type dudes that just rebounded like mad and had some okay offensive skills.
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